Transformative Storytelling & Harnessing TikTok with Theoni Rapo

Get Ready to Disrupt, Create, and Conquer with Theoni!

In this powerhouse episode, we’re sitting down our favorite TikTok creator, lending expert, and all-around content queen—Theoni Rapo—who’s mastered the art of building a personal brand without losing herself in the hustle. From riding the wave of social media trends to juggling mom life and entrepreneurship, Theoni keeps it real and shares exactly how she makes it work.

You’ll walk away with:
✨ Genius storytelling strategies that make your content pop
✨ The secret to embracing discomfort and asking for help (because superheroes don’t fly solo)
✨ Pro-level tips on using TikTok and Instagram’s latest features to actually grow your brand
✨ Why a disruptor mindset isn’t just a vibe—it’s your business superpower

Whether you’re a sleep-deprived new parent or a seasoned entrepreneur ready for your next big leap, this convo is your ultimate crash course in content creation, courage, and keeping it real through the chaos. Press play and let Theoni inspire you to own your story, show up boldly, and build a brand that hits different. 🚀

• Follow Theoni on Instagram
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• Not Nice Clever
• Candice Carcioppolo
• Kat Torre

📣 Amplify by Not Nice. Clever. is the ace up your sleeve. It's a hands on, workshop style delivery full of replicable frameworks, and actionable strategies that you team can put in place right away.

Find out more HERE.

🎙 Book Kat and Candice to speak at your next event, summit or workshop HERE

Transcript

  If I listen to everything everybody told me when I first got started in the industry, I would never have the freedom that I have to build a family and do it on my own terms right now.  Let's talk a little bit about TikTok. This is not to be offensive, Thione, but lending can be quite boring. 100%. And you've still been able to build this incredible following.

So people want to know what's That's the secret. I have been able to adapt with what is, like, the newest thing to try. If the app was changing in the way that people consumed content, then I was changing with it as well. I know the exact pain point that my ideal consumer is feeling that I am really, really good at fixing.

You know that thing that they tell you when you're a kid to imagine audience naked when you're on stage? I think of that all the time when I post.  So speaking of Instagram and tech talk, there's just so much coming out all the time. Like how do you know if it's worth your time to try it out or not? So I give myself always two weeks and if after two weeks I'm seeing that it's not performing and it feels like really heavy to do still even after the two weeks.

I let it go. And I'm like, that one wasn't for me. Like as long as you have storytelling, you can do all these different trends and they'll pop off. The biggest excuse that I hear from clients about why they aren't storytelling is that The information is, like, private. I tell stories all the time about my clients, and I've never had clients call me to be like, How dare you talk about my dad gifting me 150, 000?

Unless you're sitting there being like, Married couple, San Francisco, she's pregnant. Here's their anniversary date and social security number. Nobody tells stories like that. Those details don't matter. So, Theoni, we had one of our clever crew write in, I have a client who constantly questions my expertise.

What would you say? My initial thought? Punt.  Right away.  We are so excited today to have our friend and  our favorite TikToker with us. Here at not nice, clever, we are so excited to have you on the only she has been on before, but things have changed in the world of content. Things have changed in her own world as she welcomed a baby girl into her life recently, um, and has also launched a community that I'm super excited to share with y'all.

So let's get started. The only welcome back. It's so great to be with you. So tell us a little bit about what's new in your world. Oh, man. Um, just like you mentioned, I went from one kiddo to feeling like I knew what I was doing to two kiddos. And now everything I do is sloppy, but it gets done. And that's how it's, that's just how it rolls. 

Done is better than perfect, you know, for the holiday season. And, um, I think it was your son came up and was like, mommy, I have to poop. Yeah. Yep. This has to, this has to be done. Like just. In the middle of your reel, you're like, content can wait. Exactly. And that was like the third time. And I was like, so close to getting it perfect.

And I was like, maybe, maybe you're right, buddy. Maybe I need a break. Let's go poop, I guess. So that is such real life.  Oh, man. I would say like, I, I've always appreciated how real you are. Like, even when I remember we went and got lunch, um, in Annapolis that day and you had told me you were expecting. And I was like, Oh my goodness.

Like this was, you know, earlier in, in 2024. Um, what would you say is some like practical, like real talk for like being a new mom, balancing, having your own business. You're also a wife. You also are close with your parents. Like there's so many different hats and I feel like there's so many. Yeah. There's so much information out there, but like from your perspective, like what's real, what's practical, like since you've kind of added this new layer into your world.

Yeah. So I think that it's definitely different, um, between having your first kid and it just being like one and then having. Your second kid. And then there's two. I definitely struggle a lot more with now that I have something to compare. I definitely struggled a lot more with my first because my business was still growing.

I was still building it. And so after he was born, I had the thought process of like, nobody cares that I just had a baby because my business still wasn't built. And I'm not confident enough to like Take my foot off the pedal. So I kind of like struggled and then he was a hard baby. I think because of that, like feeling as well.

Like he just felt my anxiety. So I think if anything, like if I could give a piece of advice is that I miss a lot of time when he was a newborn and small because I was so focused on, I have to meet with real estate agents. I have to drive to my parents house. I have to take him to my mom's so that I could go like meet with, and it like doesn't matter.

Like it didn't even matter, especially if we're in real estate and mortgage. 90 percent of those people I met with and I put my baby through hell with all those car rides, like didn't end up even being the people that like I work with today. So  if I could offer anything, if it's your first baby, it's that, you know, start building like all of your business before the baby comes.

And I know that that some people will say like, take it slow. You're pregnant. Like, I think you have a lot more energy when you're pregnant, honestly, um, until you are like sleep deprived when the baby's there and now you're trying to like battle. Building the business. And now you have like a real live baby.

That still depends on you so much. My second baby, um, I have asked for help more than I have ever asked for help in my life. Um, from my nanny, from my family, from my husband, and it's kept him in the loop, which makes our relationship so awesome. And even though you go through a roommate phase with your partner, when you have a baby, When they are kept in the loop like that, because I would ask for help for everything, it like made our relationship so much stronger because there's pieces that go away temporarily in your relationship when you have a baby, and then asking for help, like, is the thing that binds you the most.

So probably those two things.  I'm taking all the notes, guys.  I'm like on thank you for all of those tips.  Um, I know a lot of our clever crew are our parents and they are thinking about maybe start starting their content creation journey and they're already parents and they might feel like they're in the thick of it.

And you've actually been able to do both. I know that some  people might shy away from having their kids.  In their content and in a real raw way because sometimes you're holding your baby while you're making content and talking about lending and interest rates, right? Um, and I'm sure that there are women out there who are afraid that that's going to maybe, I don't know, devalue them or like people are going to be like, I don't want to work with her because she's got a lot going on or something like that.

Has that been a thought in your mind and how have you kind of. Decided to do it anyways, I think that the very first again, deciphering between like the firstborn second, the firstborn I, if you're in a position in your business where you're still building, you will think of that because it is a very real fear because you're just starting out to like, figure out who you are, who your clients are, who your ideal.

business partners are and a screaming baby crying in the background isn't something that like helps anybody think clearly, right? So that is a very real fear. But I have seen that like the more I post with my kids, it just shows my dedication to my business and to my brand. And it's crazy now because if I don't have my kids or they're like asleep or they're not around, I get so much work done.

Like it is, I feel like I'm on Adderall. Like even if I get like an hour, it's the craziest thing. And my business partners and my clients see that as well. And they know now like between six to eight is bedtime. But if you hit the only up at like eight 30 or.  The next morning, super early and her husband is home as well.

The only is like on it, like on a next, on a very different level. And so I think that that's our, our generation's so good at like doing the whole work and life thing that it's a realistic, it's like giving your clients and giving your referral partners a realistic timeframe in which you work the best.

And sometimes that's with your kids because you're a lot of us in this industry, at least in the mortgage and lending space or mortgage and real estate space are just doers. We just do anyway. And so to replicate that onto social media and be like, I'm going to do it anyway with my kid just like is an incredible power that people without kids might not have.

They might not be able to show their dedication that way. So it's just like reframing it. Um, and it's way more fun. I think to like have your kid around and, and they see you, right? Like kids are just sponges. They just absorb it. Your actual life. Yeah. Not feel like you have to hide it. I remember you, um, mentioning to me like offline that when you had your first kid, you were like,  maybe put them in the other room and trying to take a call and then like hearing him in the other room and maybe feeling guilty.

And now you're just like with your baby on a call, cause that's what needs to happen at that moment. If that, you know, if that needs to happen.  I, I noticed that when  you show up in that manner, people  kind of, they respect you more.  Yeah. I mean, that's also just so badass. Like, you're just bringing your kid.

Yeah. What are you going to say? Like, what's that person going to say? Can you, can you put your kid away? Like, what are they going to say? You know? I love that.  It's so true. It's so true. And if they do, it'd be like, okay, we're done now. This conversation is over. Like, thank you. Man, you just made my job so easy.

The amount of places I've taken, especially Ariana, because like I said, Costas was a hard baby. So I had to do things like that.  I like the amount of places I've taken her, the amount of office visits this morning, Philip had a shoot with a real estate agent at the like broker's office with all the other agents that were in their office.

And I would have never brought Kosa somewhere like that. I just brought her this morning and I was just carrying her around and I was taking my calls and she was like popping in everybody's office. And I was like, they feel that like they feel the. the chillness of you and then they reflect it. She's just probably like, Hey mom, I'm just happy to come with you.

Like, I'm just happy to be here. You know, like, thanks for bringing me.  That's so cool. Kind of shifting gears because I know that our audience is always looking for the latest. Tip or the latest, um, we hate the word hacks, but they're asking for hacks still. Um, let's talk a little bit about Tik TOK because you've built a following of over 200, 000 people on Tik TOK, which is incredible.

Particularly, this is not to be offensive, Theoni, but lending can be quite boring. 100%.  I'm the first person to say that. It is the most boring. And you've still been able to build this incredible following. So people want to know what's the secret.  Oh, man.  I think if, if I could give you like two, I feel like today's just like the day of twos, right?

One is like more of a Um, I guess like not woo woo, but like maybe like a philosophy. I have been able to adapt with what is like the newest thing to try. So, when TikTok started, it was the app that you either danced your little booty off, and I wasn't doing that,  or you had the trending audio and then you like mouthed.

the things. And so I fell with that and I was like, all right, how can I make this cool for mortgages? And then that opened up like my creative juices and it just got me comfortable doing things that I didn't really know too much about. And then the app evolved as you guys know, and now it's all about storytelling, which I do think that Instagram is heading into in 2025 too.

And so that is, you know, that's like a hack. And so I think the ability to. Ability to just try things. Even when I had like over a hundred thousand followers, if the app was changing in the way that people consumed content, then I was changing with it as well, even though I didn't know what I was doing.

Right. So through that, I've learned how to just be super nimble. Like I feel like I can. I can just like change and it's almost gotten to a point where now I like say to my husband, sometimes I'm like, do I just like delete my account and start a new one? And just like, see if I can do this again. Like, I'm crazy.

I think like that, but it's because I've learned, I finally got into a place where I've learned how to talk to my audience and I am so secure in my brand. That like, I think it's because I did all of those different things and I evolved with the app. And so I think like number one, it's just to be flexible.

Um, and then number two is that storytelling that I did plug in to number one. I think like getting really good at talking about boring topics in an interesting way, especially with real estate and mortgages, your stories are yours and nobody can take you like. Nobody can take that. Nobody can steal those, right?

They can steal examples like it, but they can't steal the stories and my client's experiences and things that I've seen and heard and done. And those are the things that people binge. And so that's what I would probably recommend is getting really good at that.  I love that you said it's the things that people can't steal because I feel like a lot of people get caught in this trap of wanting to, they'll see a successful account and then they'll just try to rip off and duplicate whatever that is and it never works out.

And so like Clever Crew, this is not permission to do that, but permission to be yourself and use your stories, but how you express them, right? You go along with the app and what's trending and where, where the people are such an important nuance. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, like I said, I think that it's important, in the beginning, it's gonna feel weird, and it's important to like, Acknowledge that discomfort and almost like bring it on.

And that's why I think I'm going to be pushing a lot for YouTube in 2025. And that is so uncomfortable for me. Like I know nothing, I know nothing about YouTube, which is crazy. Cause when I tell people that they're like, but you crush it on Tik TOK and like, you're pretty good at Instagram. And I'm like, yeah, but totally different.

Yeah. I'm like, what if, what if I get on there and I have like three people who like me? Right. Like, I don't know, like, what if they don't, there's not the same people. And so I think like. I'm going to take my own advice on that and totally shift it to like a whole new platform and in the new year because I feel like at this point I've gotten a little bit too comfortable where I'm like, Oh, I feel like I'm cruising.

And that scares me. Mindset is I think the most important part of being a content creator or stepping into the content creation space. Because if you don't have the mindset that, Hey, this is new, which means that it's going to be uncomfortable and Discomfort at this phase is completely normal and I might be embarrassed when my friends mention my TikTok or they might talk shit about me behind my back or like all of this is just part of it.

If you don't have the right mindset, then you're going to quit before you even get started. And People I think are always looking for the like, well, like what button do I push or which box do I check or tell me the 10 things I must have in this video for this to go viral when the reality of it is, you just have to have the mindset that you're going to show up and learn and be better the next day and, you know, just Take the journey.

Um, I was listening to Amy Landino today. Um, she's a guest on one of our episodes. We'll link her below.  But Amy was talking about how  she's kind of, it sounded like she was tired of people asking her, like, what app do I be on? Or what's the biggest thing in 2025? And she's just like,  pick something  and allow yourself to be flexible and just go for it.

You know, like, Even when apps change or things happen or apps go away and new apps come up, instead of being overwhelmed, just decide that you're going to be nimble and flexible like Theone already talked about. And be dedicated to growing your brand no matter which tools you have at your disposal.  I love that so much.

And that's the coolest part is  that it's like you, like you said, you're building your own brand. And so I think of it as recently, um, we can talk about this in a little bit  up to my launch in my community. I've had to like binge my own content so that I could get, you know, stories and strategies about different videos and how I did them.

Because when I do them, I don't think about it. I'm like, it's a very weird how my mind works. I just do it. And then when I look at, The way I like form a video, the way I say it, the visual hooks, I'm like, Oh yeah, I guess there was like a strategy behind that. And so now I've been trying to like dive into what that is, but it's been like, I told Phillip, I was like, this is so cool.

I'm like binging my own content and I'm hilarious. Like I posted this two years ago. I'm so funny. Like, this is so good. And I know that sounds crazy, but like, that's how people that follow me or find my page. That's probably how far down they scroll to sometimes, like a lot of them, because you need, what, seven hours for somebody to like watch your content before they choose that they're going to work with you. 

And so that is in that collection. So every time you're you. posting a video and you click that post button, you're adding to that collection to like help your future self. And then also like that's kind of like my, it's like my journal, like my kids one day I'm sure will like find my Instagram and they'll be like, wow, mom was really cool in 2020.

She was like trying to dance and it didn't work, you know, or like whatever. Thank goodness we got dad's dancing jeans instead of mom's.  I think about that at being like a digital scrapbook, you know, like, like. You know, around the holidays, around people's birthdays, I always love to create like reels or to do flip books or to do something that's like a digital version of a scrapbook.

And I have so much to pull from because I'm always documenting, you know? And so it's, and you forget shit. So it's super cool to be able to have that to go back on and to think about,  to think about your kids and Candice to think about your kid one day looking back and it's just like, it's really cool. 

So you've talked about platforms evolving and being nimble. Um, yeah. With TikTok, apparently there's some new features like at the time of us recording this, who knows there might be even more by the time this, this episode drops, but, um, there's a post on social media examiner talking about full screen mode and saying that like that platform was really encouraging people to create, um, that type of content and, um, I'm reading, I'm like citing it here.

I'm like pulling a Candace, um, and saying that it's going to boost visibility. So it's just like,  if, if. Yeah. We want to be nimble. Like, what are your thoughts on recording videos like that? Like full screen, meaning horizontal. So like, if you're holding your phone like that, that's like the antithesis of what we've really seen of like having those black bars.

It was like the black bars of death Candace. You remember like anytime we were in client sessions. So now is that different? What do you think about it? Like, I just, I was surprised when I saw that.  Um, well, so I'm not shocked that they're, they're doing that or they're trying to push that out. I'm a part of the Tik Tok creator.

Uh, Group, I guess. And so before they roll these things out, they usually beta them. And when they beta this, which was, I think about a year ago, because I remember like hearing about it, then I didn't hear much about it. Like, I know when they beta the creator rewards program, that was hyped up a lot. And then it rolled out.

And obviously, like, that's been huge for people. Um, and then I forgot like the big SEO and then the creator insights. As well has been like the biggest thing. I didn't hear a lot about this one, which kind of tells me that like people use it, but the app is always trying to compete with other apps. And so in this case, they also allow you to record up to 10 minutes.

They're trying to be like YouTube. So the next part of rolling out like YouTube is okay. Well, we did the 10 minute thing. Now let's see if we can keep people on, you know, the other way, the way that they watch YouTube. So I think constantly these apps are always right, like at battle with each other. And so there, I think they're just trying to create a space where more people will show up on Tik TOK because somebody who's a YouTube user will see someone using Tik TOK and be like, is that.

Is that YouTube? Or is that TikTok? And then as soon as you tell them that's TikTok, then they can think, Oh, wait. I'm familiar with YouTube in that format. Maybe I should try out TikTok too. Because now they're doing that. So I think it's just their way of like, being friendly to people that use all the other apps.

Um, and binging your favorite creators.  With that same format. It's like a tiny little psychological switch because obviously it's the same type of content, right? Like, you're not creating different content if it's this way or this way. It's the same. How important do you think it is to be an early adopter when an app drops new features? 

Oh, man. Uh, well, I, I love it. Like, cause I just, you never know what's going to like click with you. Also like you never know what you're really going to like to create. I never in a million years thought that I was going to be somebody that could keep an audience listening for. Three plus minutes. And most of my TikToks are that long.

And we're talking like mortgage stuff. And so I never thought that until they rolled out the 10 minute feature. And I was like, 10 minutes, like who's going to watch who who's going to watch this. And I actually ended up telling my birth story and it was nine minutes, 45 seconds long. And it got like 50 some thousand views like nuts.

And I was just talking, rocking in a chair. So I would have never known that. Unless I had just tried it and it was like a psychological thing because they've always let you do it for up to five minutes, and I never even got close to five minutes. And now I now that they extended that I'm like, it's all 2345 minutes long. 

Yeah, I mean, I definitely watched that whole reel. And if you guys haven't watched or sorry, watch that whole tick tock. And if you haven't watched that tick tock, you should watch it because basically the only almost had a baby in the car. She was real close.  Basically. And then I ended up having her in my doctor's office.

Yep. Both of my kids had crazy birth stories. They were just like party people. Yeah. So yeah, but I definitely think it's important because again, you just don't know what you, you just don't know what you don't know. And then a lot of times I've tried things and I'm like, eh.  That wasn't that fun. It wasn't that exciting.

And then you just move on to doing whatever does excite you. So it's nice that they're doing all of the new features. I'm messing around now with Instagram's ability to show your reels to, um, new people before the trials. Yeah. Trial reels. What is this? Oh, this is fun. Okay. Tell me because Instagram is more of my comfort zone than TikTok. 

When you share your reel, there's an option to just trial it and if you click on trial It'll be shown to new followers.  So not your current audience and then you can see how well it performs and decide if you want to share it with your own audience or Or if maybe you want to, I don't know, rerecord and try again and yeah, do something else.

Yeah. So I think the best way I've used this is to do three different versions of three different onscreen hooks.  And then see, like, which one does the highest numbers based off of that, and then you can obviously post it. Yeah, because that's the most overt variable. So speaking of Instagram and TikTok, uh, I've started to see, my social media manager brought this up, that, like, images on TikTok and, like, carousels on TikTok are becoming more and more of a thing.

I think it's just the app. battle. But the question I want to have for you is like, how do you, how do you determine how much time to spend on a particular trend or a particular platform before you just like commit and go for it versus just getting stuck in like  analysis paralysis or overwhelm? Because I feel like that's something our Clever crew does struggle with because there's just so much coming out all the time.

Like, how do you know, like, what's the filter, like the two questions you ask yourself, like whether you decide if it's worth your time to try it out or not. Like, do you have a framework like that? So I give myself always two weeks, like I call it like two week sprints. It's the same as when I'm trying to get back into like posting again more consistently.

I'll do a two week sprint. So I do a two week sprint of, uh, let's say carousel posts on TikTok or whatever, uh, reels on Instagram. And if after two weeks I'm seeing that it's not performing and it's, it feels like really heavy to do still, even after the two weeks, I let it go. And I'm like, that one wasn't for me.

I'll like, I'll hop on the next one. Um, but at the end of the day, I'm seeing that a lot of these are rooted in that storytelling. A lot of those posts that are carousels on TikTok are rooted in storytelling. So it's like, how good can you do whatever you're going to do besides say it? But putting it on, like, text, um, and, like, make it easier to read.

Because the ones that at least I stopped to scroll through are, like, 30 things that I learned before I turned 40 that you should hear if you're 20. And, like, obviously those are, they're, like, mini stories, right? Even though they're numbered or, you know, anything else like that. And so I think, like  everything, there should be core Things that you're always working on, even if it's like hopping on a trend or not.

And I think storytelling is like the biggest one that I've seen a lot of trends  hop on. Like as long as you have storytelling, you can do all these different trends and they'll pop off. The biggest excuse that I hear from clients about why they aren't storytelling is that  The information is like private. 

And I know it's an excuse. Compliance. We can't say because of compliance. That's the, I'm just like, well, I mean,  compliance. I'm like.  I still roll my eyes at it. I want you to keep all your licensing,  but  can you just have that conversation with us a little bit? Because I'm sure you're hearing it in your community as well.

Like, well, the only I can't storytell because X, Y, and Z, or they just 

I was just about to say that. I think that they don't know what storytelling is because I, I tell stories all the time about my clients and I've never had clients call me to be like, how dare you tell people that I didn't have any money. Like, how, how dare you talk about my dad gifting me 150, 000, right?

Like no one's done that. And so I'm like, it's, unless you're sitting there being like, I just closed a deal in San Francisco and it was a married couple. Actually she's pregnant, expecting  a kid soon. And they just bought a new car. It was their anniversary date. Right. I'm like. Social security number. Yeah.

Nobody tells stories like that. Those details don't matter.  And so I'm like, if you feel like it's Like, confidentiality, then you're not doing it the right way. Like, that's not what we're talking about with storytelling. What we're talking about is that there's a hook, there's a middle, and then there's an end.

And like, you are the hero, and you're fixing a problem somewhere in that that doesn't feel so forced down your throat. Like, hey, I'm the expert of VA loans, and if you have a VA loan, call me. Like, that's boring. Right? I would much rather hear about how VA loans are. are something that the market and real estate agents see as bad loans because they've always been kind of sensed that way.

And how did you overcome that with your amazing program that your underwriter underwrote that file? And now that seller feels more comfortable. You got these people moving cross country and buying a house. They never. could have put in offers before in this place. It was super competitive. That to me, what like, what piece of confidentiality other than it was a VA loan, right?

Which I'm talking, there's so many VA loans in the United States. So again, I think it's just a matter, like, I just tell people, I'm like, you're not doing it right. You're just not, you're not practicing enough then if you feel like you're, you're, you know,  yeah.  Yes. And you're right. I was just about to say that.

I think that they don't know what storytelling is because I, I tell stories all the time about my clients and I've never had clients call me to be like, how dare you tell people that I didn't have any money? Like, how, how dare you talk about my dad gifting me 150, 000, right? Like no one's done that. And so I'm like, it's, Unless you're sitting there being like, I just closed a deal in San Francisco and it was a married couple, actually she's pregnant, expecting a, um, a kid soon, and they just bought a new car, another poster date, and social security.

I'm,  no, nobody tells stories like that. Nobody tells them like, that doesn't matter. Right. And so I'm like, if you feel like it's.  Like confidentiality, then you're not doing it the right way. Like, that's not what we're talking about with storytelling. What we're talking about is that there's a hook, there's a middle, and then there's an end and like, you are the hero and you're fixing a problem somewhere in that, that doesn't feel so forced down your throat.

Like, Hey, I'm the expert of VA loans. And if you have a VA loan, call me like that's boring. Right. I would much rather hear about how VA loans are something that. The market and real estate agents see as bad loans because they've always been kind of sensed that way. And how did you overcome that with your amazing program that your underwriter underwrote that file and now that seller feels more comfortable?

You got these people moving cross country and buying a house they never Could have put an offers before in this place. It was super competitive. That to me, what, like what piece of confidentiality other than it was a VA loan, right? Which I'm talking, there's so many VA loans in the United States. So again, I think it's just a matter, like I just tell people, I'm like, you're not doing it right. 

You're just not you're not practicing enough. That's the thing, right? Because like even though we naturally Storytell in our day to day. We love the tea. We love the hot goss  To do it in an intentional way to further business to express your brand to build that it is a practice It's not it's different than just spilling the tea at the virtual water cooler, you know  So we have the raw tools, but we need to practice it in this And I think when you practice it, uh, I always talk about like pain points within your avatar when you practice something like that.

And it took me a long time. I figured out what I'm really good at pain point fixing. I know the exact pain point. That my ideal consumer is feeling that I am really, really good at fixing and without that storytelling and without that practice, then you don't know like what makes you feel really good and what makes you the authority because there's a million parts to our transaction and we can't be good at all of them.

And like, you don't like. All of that, you know, I, I might not love the intro call, but I love when there's an issue that comes up and I can fix it. And people also love that because it makes me the hero of that story. But I would have never even known that about myself had I not done the talking about the stories and trying to figure out like, what is the, what are all of these pain points that I'm talking about in my stories even.

So it also helps you recognize that, which. Obviously, people feel that vibe when you tell a story, and then you just show up a lot differently when you're, when you know the pain point that you're good at fixing.  Yeah, you show up like you actually know what you're talking about. And like, you are reading their mind too, instead of just being very generic and fluffy  and jargony. 

Absolutely. Beyoncé, what, um, what's one of your favorite stories from the past year? Like, what's one that stands out to you? A client story. Because obviously the best story is your daughter being born. Obvi. Yes, of course. That one. That one was the best. Um, probably back in going off of the VA loan, actually back in June, right before I had my daughter, um, I had a client call me.

And she was already under contract and she was supposed to close the next week. And I, I was like, well, sister, you're in a conventional loan right now. Your rate is actually pretty high. Did you know about that? You're like paying these points, all this stuff. And she was like, no. And I was like, well, you also told me that,  like, you're not on the loan, but like your, your spouse is on loan and you guys just got married.

And she was like, yes, he's deployed.  And so  I was just confused because I said, why aren't you in a VA loan? And she said, Oh, because we're buying in a super competitive market. And my real estate agent told me that I cannot use a VA loan, but we're really uncomfortable with the amount of money that we have to bring to closing.

And we're having to ask different family members for gifts, but we really want this house.  And I just was like. Uh, you're working with the wrong people that are giving you the wrong information. So we took the loan and she fired her lender who wouldn't stop harassing me because she was like, how could you get them into a VA loan?

I couldn't get them into a VA loan. And I was like, no, if you know, VA loans like we do them, you know how to get them in there. It wasn't super easy. There was like a little bit of complication. But it wasn't something that we hadn't seen before. So I knew I could do it. Everyone was up in arms. And for like three days straight, I got back to back calls from the seller, the listing agent and her realtor being like, what are we doing?

We're about to blow up this deal. We're supposed to close next week. And I remember talking to the seller because the seller was like keen on talking to me. And if you know nothing about real estate, just know that you're represented by agents so that sellers can't directly go to The lender, let's say.

And so they were calling me and I just had to keep assuring them. I was nine months pregnant. I was like, I'm telling you all, like, if I'm chill right now, like you need to chill and get down to this level. We might not be able to close next week. We're going to close in like four days later than the original.

And it was. The craziest thing, because as salespeople, we see people at their worst because that is the, that's just what we bring in. And so it was the seller at the beginning of the call,  just so upset, like so angry that we're blowing up the steel and you don't understand how quickly I need to close.

And I really need this to close. Like I need to sell my house. And then at the very end, then thanking me. Because I'm putting these buyers in a better financial spot. And so sometimes the work we do isn't sexy, but it's needed. And so I kept telling them that their current, their current loan terms, it being a conventional loan would deplete not only all their savings, but their monthly payment would be so uncomfortable that they're not going to be able to comfortably move in.

And then that's on your shoulders, Mr. Seller, like you're going to sell that house that you've created memories for 20 years. And there's going to be a distress. you're not gonna need the transcript. I'm a licensed buyer living in that house. Like that doesn't feel good, right? When when there's a different option that we could take that, okay, might take four more days than your original closing costs, or closing day to close.

And I just remember, like getting off that call and being like, Oh my gosh, this was so cool. Like everyone understands now that it's in the benefit of the buyers. And sometimes sellers could just think like investors and be like, I don't really care. Like I need this to close. And they finally understood this was going to be the best.

And that lender was definitely not out for their best interest. Didn't even try to explore that option. Just was like, this wouldn't get approved VA. So like you need to go and ask for money. And so that was amazing. Cause it made me again, it's like, there's levels to this shit that put me on like A totally different level of being a lender because I was like, man, I'm not just getting people mortgages.

I'm like, I'm getting them in. And now 6 months later, 7 months later, I know they're comfortably affording their mortgage and they had money left over to go and buy furniture or paint their door, you know, whatever they wanted to do. So that was probably one of my favorites from this year. Well, that was just a mini master class in lending and real estate storytelling.

Seriously. That's, that's incredible, Theoni. Because people, you humanize the process.  And that's what's different, right? It's not just about getting a loan. It's about what that means for the family. Exactly. And that's why I hate the term, like, we used her for a mortgage or we used her for real estate.

Because I'm like, you're not really, like, that's pretty fucked up, right? Like you're using people. Well, but just the term user, like, you know, I'm, I'm working to delete that word from my vocabulary because that comes from a very like dark roots, you know, website users. It's literally from. Drug users and trying to make them addictive and addicted to whatever it is.

So I catch myself and I'm like, oh, nope people Potentials prospects, whatever it is, like yeah, because it's it's definitely more than just a mortgage. That's for sure So one thing that we haven't talked about that I that we definitely need to the only is how your personal brand Has kind of owned being  Disruptive in the space. 

Yes And I love this. Some people might shy away from that because they think it's going to turn people off, lose them business. Um, but what does being a disruptor mean to you in your space? And why have you decided to own it? For me? I think being a disruptor just means testing the limits. This, like, compliance bullshit.

Like, not that it's bullshit, but the compliance of it all. If I listened to everything everybody told me when I first got started in the industry, I would never have the freedom that I have to build a family and do it on my own terms right now. And it's very Hard in a service based industry to make people respect your time.

And so if I've done anything, I've not only disrupted the industry, but I've disrupted my time and the respect of my time. And so I do it in a fun way. Like, I don't think people understand that for me, at least. It's not fun to cold call. It's not fun to door knock. It's not fun to ask people if they know five people who are looking about like,  It's not fun for me, and it's not, it's not natural for me either.

What is natural for me is, you know that thing that they tell you when you were a kid to imagine audience naked when you were on stage? I think of that all the time when I post. And I almost black out when I think of it, because I'm like, I'm posting to all of my best friends, right? That are, you know, naked in the crowd.

Like, no one here is nervous, basically. And so because of that feeling, It's been so fun to me that people just gravitate towards that energy. And so I disrupt it in a way that  I, you know, the word daddy gets people uncomfortable. So I think if anything, like my number one thing is that my literal not your daddy's lender Tag, tag line phrase.

Yeah, is, is disruptive in its own because I have purposely keywords that set off different animations or automations on my many chats with the word daddy. And it's like the coolest thing to watch. Grown men tap. Or type daddy into like a comment. And so I'm like, if you're a 40 year old real estate agent doing that, like your guard is down immediately as soon as I talk to you or, you know, anything.

And so it, it's like a weird reverse psychology where I make people uncomfortable so that they can be comfortable with me whenever they do talk to me. So if anything, like, I don't know if that even all made sense because I've thought about like, why am I disruptive? I just kind of do what I want. Like I do what feels good and I do, I don't listen to anyone.

I'm always constantly trying to prove these huge coaching programs wrong. I'm like, that's not set up for a mom with two kids. You're like time blocks. Monday through Friday are not for moms that are set up with two kids. Like it's not fun for me. I don't like doing it. It's not practical. And then you beat yourself up because you don't do it.

You end up not even doing it. So.  I'm just somebody who's just always going against the grain. And even if it takes a long time, I'm like, whatever, like people said that, like bringing in leads the way I do, isn't going to work. And then this year it popped off and I was like, well, good thing I spent four years.

Building that so we know that you just started your not your daddy's creator community And I'm sure some of our clever crew is gonna want to be part of it can Congratulations on the launch of it. We're super excited for you and not nice clever huge supporters. Let us know what you need We're here for you.

Yes, but tell us  What it's all about, who should join?  Yes. So this is going to be a little, of course, like in true disruptive, weird fashion, right? Of mine, it's going to actually be where my creators that I'm hiring for my loan team are going to host our weekly huddles, right? Our weekly one hour calls. And so I've almost just. 

deleted the whole  I've just made it transparent. I've deleted the whole curtain totally where I'm like, here's what my team is doing. We're going to do these hour calls anyway, cause we're getting better at content, at learning things, at trying new things. And if you want to be a part of it and learn it with us, you don't have to join the team, but it's a buy in if you don't join the team.

Right. So that, that way you actually do the thing. That's kind of what the whole premise is. I love that. You're not gatekeeping. We don't gatekeep at Not Nice Clever, and Not Your Daddy does not gatekeep either. No, absolutely not. And I just think it's efficient, right? Like we all have, our time is very valuable, and if we're going to do the thing anyway, and we're going to do the meeting anyway, we might as well just pull up some extra chairs to the table and bring people in. 

Okay, Kat, you want to share the not nice advice today? Yes. So, Theoni, we had one of our clever crew write in. They are, they're named Doubted and Drained. Oof. Okay. So here's what they're going to ask you. I have a client who constantly questions my expertise, even though they hired me for my experience.

Every suggestion I make is met with a pushback and constant second guessing. It feels like they don't trust me to do the job. They actually brought me in for, and it's starting to really wear me down. At first I brushed it off as just normal feedback, but now I find myself over explaining everything I do and even doubting my own decisions.

I know I'm good at what I do, but their lack of trust in me is making me second guess myself. How do I hit the reset button on this? dynamic and get them to see me as the expert they hired and stop letting it chip away at my confidence. What would you say? I initial thought punt  right away.  I would just punt that.

I would just totally punt. And I, it sounds harsh. Yeah. Just, this is not nice advice. Exactly. It's not nice advice. Yeah. And you're the perfect person for this.  So this year has been, we call for my team has been a year of punting. It sounds bad, but like, we don't mean that person. But like punting the opportunity even and it allows for space for people who will see your value to enter if you are constantly taking on people like that, that that hire you for the job, they don't want you to actually do your job.

They just want you to be around to say that, like we hired for this, that and the other. So that if something ends up being a bad idea, they can blame you instead of blaming themselves because they've hired you for that position. So we see this a lot in real estate and we see a lot, honestly, with real estate agents.

So they want, like, the lenders to be the bad guys, but not them if they have something that doesn't work or doesn't end up in a ratified contract for them. So, I think that that will then make you In this like just spiral in a very low vibration, which then will only attract more clients like that. And now you are just Like the bitch boy or whatever of their team instead of operating as that professional.

And then you also like, you kind of forget how to act as that person who's like, Oh wait, no, I'm really good at what I do because you're constantly being bogged down by these people who don't see your worth anyway. So immediately pun. I would be like, Hey, you know, it looks like you got it.  You have like the control here and I'm going to go find, I'm going to, I'm going to go find somebody who needs me. 

Because you clearly don't need me right now. I fully support this advice. Like, if it's, you cannot force somebody. You cannot control somebody. It just is what it is.  Thanks for joining us on Not Nice, Clever. Remember to follow Not Nice, Clever wherever you listen to audio. And if you haven't already, drop that 5 star review.