Sharran Srivatsaa On How Being Coachable Changed His Career

🎉Our guest for our 250th episode is so incredible— it brought Candice out of maternity leave. No, really. 

If you’ve ever wondered whether hiring a coach is “worth it,” this episode will show you the ROI in real time.

From building a $3Billion+ real estate company to coaching top-tier entrepreneurs across the globe, Sharran Srivatsaa has a gift for simplifying what most people overcomplicate—especially when it comes to growing a business. In this episode, he breaks down the difference between marketing and sales (they are not the same thing, and most people are doing both wrong), what it really means to be coachable and what Sharran’s first coaches taught him.

Whether you’re trying to grow your business, build your brand, or just get out of your own way, this conversation is going to challenge how you think about success—and give you the tools to actually reach it.

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Transcript

 I, I will tell you, entrepreneurship is like what? Eating glass and looking in an abyss, is that what they say? Some, some version, some version of that, especially in service-based businesses. People confuse marketing and sales. Marketing in a lot of ways is storytelling, and the job of marketing is just to get somebody to raise their hand.

That's it. So marketing stops when Sharon raises his hand saying, yes, I'm interested. Marketing's job is done. Now sales is to get somebody from raising their hand to say yes, they wanna work with, if marketing is storytelling, selling is. A skill. If we had a metric to evaluate whether our marketing work, it's like, Hey, I spent $10,000 and I got 10 hand raises.

Therefore it cost me a thousand dollars to get one hand raise. In my mind, Sharon, like my mental image of you is just like this, like limitless fountain of knowledge. A lot of times we're just in our heads. When you're inside the bottle, it's hard to read the label. That's what I think about often. Most of us are just in the fishbowl, in the bottle.

We, we lose context of perspective, how, how the world is perceiving us, what opportunity we're. We, we can have, and you're still in the bottom and there's no transformation that can exist because you don't even, you can't read the label yourself. What are your top tips on becoming coachable? Number one, whatever you think you shouldn't say, you should say, I wanted to become a better speaker.

And I, I, I said, mom, you know, why don't I just hire Tony Robinson's speaking Coach Richard Green. I paid $50,000 for three hours. And my speaking career was, I would say, everything up until the day I met Richard Green and everything after. That's the before and after, just totally. And that he would just gimme random things and I would just keep talking for like three hours.

And then he said to me, he's like, why are you trying to be like Tony? I, I would not be friends with me 20 years ago. I had some success early on and I thought, I was like, Hey, I'm the man. And I'm gonna probably cry when I share this. Um, today's guest went from Wall Street to scaling a $3 million real estate company, and now he's coaching top entrepreneurs on how to scale, strategize, and simplify their path to success.

Also, this interview made me come off of maternity leave because I was not going to miss this one. So stay tuned for the entire episode. Sharon, welcome to the podcast. We're so excited to have you. Oh my gosh, you, uh, thank you for having me. And a lot of people don't understand, by the way, how much time and effort it takes to get a guest, plan a show, build a great show, have the fun conversation, do post-production, do promotion.

So just, and y'all don't have to do this. So I want to tell you thank you. Thank you for not just this episode, but thank you for what you do because you are. Enriching the world with great ideas and, uh, both of your banter is like, is the, the entertainment rapper that wraps all the good stuff together. So I'm, I'm grateful to be a part of it.

Thank you so much. Well, we're truly honored. Um, so we're just gonna dive right into some questions. Sharon did not wanna know the questions ahead of time, so we are just surprising him as we go. So let's just start with looking back at your journey from Wall Street, um, to now scaling a $3 billion real estate company.

Can we talk a little bit about how mentorship and external support play a role in that, that transformation? Yeah, totally. So, um, I'll tell you the first, uh, coaching story. So this was super interesting starting our first company, uh, even before the Wall Street days. And I will tell you, entrepreneurship is like what?

Eating glass and looking in an abyss, is that what they say? Some, some version, some version of that. No, but I, I resonate with that now. Yeah. And, and, and there was this day and I was, um, it was in San Francisco. We had, we were, you know, growing our startup. I was. You know, 20 years old raising money from Sandhill Road.

I mean, I'd raised, raised 20 plus million dollars on a, on a, on a PowerPoint deck at that time. And I was trying to build this business and I was honestly completely in over my head. I had, I had no idea. Right. And I. We were all just trying to figure it out and I was driving to this event that someone, I was free by the way.

I was driving to this free event that I was supposed to go to, and it was only for founders, and they said there was gonna be 25 founders in the room. So I called my dad on the way to my event. My dad says, super smart, super sharp guy. And I said, dad, like this stuff is so hard. How did you do it? He's like, I got a lot of help.

And I said, well, I'm going to this event. He goes, Hey, listen, I know you don't wanna go to this event, but just go pay attention in this event and maybe you'll pick up an idea or two. So I go to this event, I'm sitting down and this lady starts to speak and um, and I'm back of the room with my hoodie on, don't want to talk to anybody.

I'm like, what am I doing here? Why am I here? I just, I have so much to do. Let me just go do that thing. And then every time she said something and I had a question, I was almost proverbially raising my virtual hand in, in the room, but I didn't, and I would think of this question and she would just answer the question next.

I was like, wait, this is so eerily weird. And then I, she would say something else and then I would think of a question and she would just answer this question. I go, there's no way this is possible there. You can't be psychic. This is crazy. Right? And so on my way home, I called my dad. I was like, dad, you will not believe this.

And I explained the story to him and my dad says, Hey, you should probably ask her if she can. Coach or mentor you. I was like, dad, how, what would I possibly do? And my dad is very practical. He will tell you like the exact script or he will tell you the exact thing to do just, and I learned that from him and I said, dad, what would I do?

And I said, I don't have that much money. And this was the early days. And he goes, how much do you have? I was like, what do you mean? And my dad and I don't talk money. So that was a very interesting thing. Oh yeah. Many conversations with parents. So, so I, so I, so I'm couching this conversation and I'm like, how about, I'm like, um, maybe like $10,000 to spare.

And he goes, okay. Write her this email and say, uh, it was great to meet you at this event. I would like to offer you $10,000 as a symbol of my seriousness. You don't have to take any calls or any meetings. If you could just prioritize some email responses from time to time, that would help me a lot. And I was like.

And I say this because like my dad said this to me, and so what did I do? I went back, I, I got to the office, I wrote her that email, and literally she wrote, writes back three minutes later, is this a joke? Right? Yeah. I, I would think it was a joke too. I wouldn't take that serious. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I responded and I was, and then I said, no, I'm a hundred percent serious.

And so she replies and says, write it up. And I'm like, I don't know what write this up means. So I hit print, I hit, I literally hit print. I signed it and then I, I scanned it and I sent it right back to her. And then she sent me wiring instructions. I wired her $10,000 and she became my first coach. And I, the interesting part was I did not know how to be coached.

It, it's no one knows, you know? And she told me, she's like, Hey, this is gonna be a tough relationship because I don't take on anybody who's never had a coach before, ah, because you are not coachable. And so I said, maybe that's what we work on, where you can teach me how to become more coachable, how to open up, how to figure out how to take advice.

And all that time we spent, the year we spent together, essentially it was on email I spent with, you know, a couple of times with her in person. Uh, she taught me how to become coachable. And that was the biggest, I, I mean, it was a freak gift that I got and thanks to my dad for, for kind of teaching me that.

And then the break happened and here's the cool part. Um, after that, uh, I worked with her for about a year and then while I was running Telus, which was this real estate company, I'll get in the story of that, um, I needed help again. So I hired her again and she's like, this is gonna be great 'cause you are already coachable.

Coachable. And then we were able to take that business. Grow with 10 x in five years and sell that business to Douglas Elliman, all because she helped me through that process. So that was the first Coach story. I love that so much. And because I committed to, since I came off maternity for this interview, I committed to squeezing as much juice out of you as I can in this 45 minutes.

I know the clever crew wants to know what are your top tips on becoming coachable. Yeah, totally. Um, so the, the, I actually, um. Uh, I'll share the tactical ideas, but I'll give you the, the broader idea here. So, the, the question, the number one question I get asked is, Hey, Sharan, how do I find a coach? How do I find a mentor?

And so during, so when I started my podcast, so I, I do, I, I have a podcast called Business School and my, the first episode of my podcast is how to Find a Mentor. And so if anyone is interested in this sharan.com/episode one, it's the first episode of my podcast. It is the most downloaded episode.

Literally, I break down how you go find a mentor and, uh, and, but that was a finding a mentor thing, how to be coachable is something really, really different. Right? So the, so I'll give you the, the three things she gave me. The first one was, um, to have this, to, to be so deeply vulnerable. And she said, whatever you think you shouldn't say, you should say.

And I will tell you, I'm a much better father, much, much better husband, much better friend, because we have this filter. 'cause we think it and you don't process it because we don't have a safe environment to say it. And she's like, whatever you think you should say that you shouldn't say, you should say.

And I said, well, it's gonna come out raw, it's gonna come out awkward. She goes, that is, she said, that's my job to process. She goes, if I don't hear the thinking process, if I don't hear the patterns, I can't really help you with it. So that was biggest, the biggest lesson, number one. And I tell kind of like all the portfolio companies that we've invested in, I go, whatever you're thinking, uh, you should say.

So, uh, here's a tactical idea around it. We have several. Um, we have, we, I used to run a private equity fund before I came to Real, so we have, you know, 24 portfolio companies. All of them report in. Um, they don't send me, we, they send me a weekly update. And the weekly report is, uh, on Voxer. I dunno if you're familiar with the app.

It's just a audio app called Voxer, and it's the, uh, hey, this is my highlight of the week. This is my lowlight of the week. This is my priority for next week, and this is how can you help me? And the interesting part is I tell them, you can go as long as you want in your Voxer. So it's not short. Just go as long as you want.

And the interesting part is, as they talk, I can hear and find all the in-between info is way more important to me than everything else because I can see how they tie the connections. I can be like, oh, I'm really stressed out about this, but let me get back to, I'm like, so I know that they're stressed out about something.

Right? So I can find that. And I found audio to be significantly more valuable than, uh, like written text because when we write. We process, we filter, we filter more, and then we write in whatever tone or language. But when you're talking, it's way different. So, um, that was a big transference into the, the current way I do it.

So number one, whatever you think you shouldn't say, you should say because the coach creates a safe environment for that number one. Number two, uh, she said that, Hey, I'm going to give you con, she's like, if you give me context, I will help you personalize it. I thought that was really, really powerful. So context and personalization are super, super important, right?

And so, uh, we, she's like, Hey, you may spend a lot of time explaining something to me until you explain it to me, until you gimme context. I can't personalize the advice for you. And, and, uh, so I would, I would tell her things. So she would say, Hey, she would say, the question you want to ask me is, Hey, can I give you context so you can personalize this?

It was really great language because now I would say, I would say, Hey, coach Connect, can I give you context so you can personalize this? And it would frame that next dialogue very, very well. And the third one, this was actually the most important, which is, um, she said, Hey, uh, you're not gonna get the insight right away, but you have to promise me that you're gonna process the insight and come back to what you got out of it.

So, so she'll give me, I'll take notes, et cetera. And I had 24 hours to process the insights. And kind of TLDR them back to her. And that was super, super cool. And I'll tell you the best thing I got out of this, uh, and I told her, and she then she asked me this. She's like, do you have any rules or requests for me?

And I said, I only have one, which is as soon as I get an idea, and if I'm done, I'm done with the conversation. I can't listen to you any, any, like, I'm a super high DI can't listen to you past that. Right? So we're having this conversation. I, I, I will not forget this word, like a coffee shop in San Francisco.

We're having this conversation and she says something and I'm like. I'm good. And I just like get up and walk out. She's like, you haven't even talked. I'm like, bye. And, and so, uh, so now that, that really helps. So I tell all my, like all my direct reports, I tell all my team, Hey, as soon as you get the idea, we don't need to finish the meeting.

You got the idea. Go. So that's been a really powerful thing and that she, she always said to me, she's like, I'll know Sean. I'll never waste my time. And so I will keep hammering her and when I get it, I'm like, I'm out. I'm done. I don't want to think about anything else. So, um, those three things were like super powerful for me, what she taught, and that's carried through in like, all my coaching conversations.

That's amazing. How long ago was that? This was, uh, this is 2001, so call it 24 years, something like that. Wow. That's crazy. That's crazy. I'm crazy dating myself here. These Asian jeans are, you know, age Well, hey, we gotta welcome for all their worth. That idea moment, like once you get the idea. 'cause I, I've seen this as a coach.

I know Candace has as well, and I'm sure you sharan. I'll, I'll hop on to coaching sessions and we'll have an idea. We'll have the, the, the, the follow up action items, the plan that we're working toward the goals, and dah, dah, dah. But I never know what's gonna be that one thing that the client's gonna get out of the session until I'm listening to them and like I'm waiting for.

And I, I feel that on the other end too, as a coach, where I'm like, this is what I need to tell you because you're getting hung up and you're missing it. Here's a blind spot. Now take it and run with it. And it's such a beautiful thing to watch on the other side of the equation and that. You've created a space where the client trusts themselves enough to just take it and run with it too.

Yeah, totally. Well, it's amazing there. I, I'll share this one. Um, so I hired, um, I have my, my wife. My wife thinks I, um. I collect coaches, like, you know, jars of mustard these days, and so, oh boy. Uh, and so I have seven paid coaches right now. Uh, I am super grateful for them and I'll Oh, and I'll tell you why.

Um, and I, I want share this one lesson from, from a coaching perspective for all of us. So I was, um, I know you find these people that say like, you get a Jeff Bezos or goes online and says, oh, you know, if I can do it, you can do it too. Well. That is false. That is not true. There, there is no truth to that whatsoever because, uh, the, the, the, the amount of, uh, the amount of things that have had to sequence to line up for Bezos to do what he does call it, both macro environment and what he sell and his, his personality, his family situation, divine timing, market conditions, like there's too many things and so.

I, I, I have found even in, even in my quote about a success that I tell, I find myself telling people that, Hey, if I can do it, you can do too. But that's an insane cop out because I can't say, bro, this stuff is way too hard. There's no way you can do this. Like, I can't say that to somebody. Right? And so people want to say to people, if I can do it, you can do too.

And I have realized that's not true. So I, I, so I was thinking, well, if that is not true, what is the closest thing to that truth? And I realized that the closest thing to that truth, and I, and this hit me maybe like. 10, 12 years ago. I can't remember when, when I was rewatching, uh, Rocky four and if you ever watched Rocky four.

So I just weird, like, you know, crazy. We love the movie references. Yeah. It's all good. Yeah. So, so, uh, here Rocky Bbo is getting totally beat up. He's sitting in the corner of his, you know, in, in his side of the, the ring and he's got seven people in the, in his corner. That's when it hit me. I said, okay, I don't have to be like Tony Robbins.

I don't have to be like Ray Dalio. I don't have to be like Jeff Bezos. I just have to completely mimic and replicate their support systems. So I, um, I wanted to become a better speaker and I, I said, mom, you know, why don't I just hire Tony Robbins as speaking coach. And so I, I'll tell you what happened. I hired Tony Robinson, speaking coach.

He had Richard Green. I paid $50,000 for three hours and, and I mean, it's, it's a good investment. Like it, I, I, my speaking career was, I would say everything up until the day I met Richard Green and everything after. That's the before and after, just totally. And he, and the, the, the lesson he gave me was this.

He said to me, he's like, so he was sitting there in a chair. It was just him and me, and he was going to do a, another event after. So I just had him, he would say, Hey, um, talk about the Civil War. Hey, talk about this. Hey, talk about that. He would just gimme random things and I would just keep talking for like three hours.

And then he said to me, he's like, why are you trying to be like Tony? I was like, I, I, I, he's a really good speaker, so like, I wanna be like him. And then he goes, no, we need to be you. And I said, everyone says that. And so he spent the next hour and he said, we need to find the linguistic anchor for you. And I said, what the heck is a linguistic anchor?

And he said, we need to find something for you where, how you deliver, how you present, how you share, how you build, how you grow, all needs to be put through this filter. That way you know it is truly, essentially you. And you won't believe this. We took probably 90 minutes. That was probably the whole time we spent doing this.

And he, he sits there, he's thinking, he's like, and he keeps throwing me topics and I'm keeping, I'm always just talking, right. I'm sure. And then he goes, he goes, I got it. I got it. I go, you got it? And he goes, yeah. And then he gives me a topic, um, and I talk and he goes, okay, I got it. It's tactically inspirational.

And I go, wait, what? He goes, those are, that's your linguistic anchor, tactically inspirational, and he goes, everything that you share, everything that you present, everything that you do, you have to run it through this filter. If what you're sharing on stage is not leading up or building towards being tactically inspirational, you are off brand.

And that's what changed everything. I mean, Kat, you've, you, you've seen me on stages that it is like, I try to stay tactically inspirational in everything that I do. You are, you're electric, but tangible, like practical, but power. Like it's you, you walk that line really, really well. Thank you. Yeah. And so that was a huge kind of coaching moment because I would not have, um, that that was worth not 50,000.

That was worth. My entire livelihood. 'cause I think career, I think I've, I think I've made tens of millions of dollars from stage and it would've never, it would've never happened otherwise. Um, I know you have a question, but I have to tell you this last story. I, I, I got stories of otherwise we know better than to get in your way, Sean.

Keep going, keep going. So, so, but here's the Tony Robbins reference. The Tony Robbins reference was this, so. I was born in India and my parents sold everything that they had to send me to the us. Um, it was mainly because I was getting beaten and bullied in school. I would show up at home with my uniform shirts, buttons, ripped off on my, on my pocket, ripped off, and my by my mom would say like, what happened?

I'd be like, oh, I was just roughhousing at school, but. I remember the time where I would run around campus to go to the classroom next door because I would, would not want to go through the lockers 'cause I would get beat and, and I'm a lot of therapy. I'm totally over that, which is, I'm in a good spot because of that.

However, they, when they sent me to the states, I had no idea what I would expect. And so, um. I didn't have a lot of money and so I, I worked multiple jobs on campus and, uh, I didn't want my friends to see me work. And so I worked the graveyard shift doing, um, custodial work. And so I'm doing custodial work and this big burly guy, Bob, who's my custodial manager, said to me, he's like, kid, you're really funny, but I don't understand you.

Your accent is so thick. 'cause I had this strong Indian accent. Yeah. And I said, I said, well, what do I do? And you know, and then he, and he said, well, you should go to the library and you should get accent tapes. And I was like, oh, that makes sense. Like I could work. And he goes, you're, you're scrubbing floors all day, all night.

Like, just put the accent tapes on. You'll learn super quick. So I go to the library and I asked this lady, the librarian for accent tips, and she's like, Sean. This is the United States. I have French tapes, German tapes, you know, uh, I and Swahili tapes. I don't have English tapes. If you went to France, you would get English accent tapes.

Yeah. And I said, well, that makes sense. And she goes, well, I have a book on tape. I go, well, that, that'll, that'll work. She's like, just read along with it or something. You'll, you'll do well. So I had my old, y'all are too young for this. I had my old Sony Walkman. We are not too, or I'm not too young for it.

Cousin had a Walkman, I stole it from him 'cause my parents wouldn't get me a, an iPod Sports, it's, it's like a sportsman. I, I I, I, I put on this Walkman and it was like cassette tapes and it was Tony Robbins personal power. So I learned English to Tony Robbins' personal power, which is why I tell my wife I speak like I'm yelling because Tony yells throughout that entire book.

And, and, and so, so, uh, which, which is, which is why I wanted to speak like Tony and, and, uh, so my wife would be like, calm down. You know, you're, I'm like, I don't know how else to speak. This is all I got. So, uh, Tony taught me, I, I learned English from Tony and I learned how to speak from Tony Robinson's speaking coach, which is, which is kind of wild.

Wow. Full circle. That's crazy. So cool. I wanna shift gears here a little bit because I think you're just, you're, you're in my mind, Sharon, like my mental image of you is just like this, like limitless fountain of knowledge. And I think that there's so much that we can learn from you, but the one thing that I see so many people struggle with at any level of wealth or success, period, um.

Is dealing with criticism and feedback and trolls and not like, well, you know, like when somebody says something, even if it's from a place of love or if it's from a place of, you know, cruelty period. Um, I would love to hear your tactically inspiring kind of take on Yeah. How you look at feedback, how you look at constructive advice.

Yeah. I, I was very, I was a jerk before, like I would, um. I, I would not be friends with me 20 years ago. Uh, not at all. And I thought I had some success early on, and I thought, I was like, Hey, I'm the man. And, and, um, I read this quote, which was, um, instead of thinking that you're right, ask yourself, how do I know I'm right?

And I thought that was so powerful. And so every time now when I have this feeling that, oh, you know, I'm right. Hey, you know, Kat gave me the idea, but I'm right. Well, then I ask myself every time I think that feeling, I ask myself this one question. How do I know I'm right? And it allows you to take a step and say, Hey, is there some validation?

Is there some evidence? Is there some supporting, uh, perspective that shows that I'm right in some way? So that was, I, I'd say that probably 10 plus years ago, I, I think I was scrolling through somewhere and I saw that I go, okay, maybe I'll practice this in my life. And I have found the. The high drivers have, so a, a big part of this, right?

There was this big study done with, um, you know, the, like people who were really successful, billionaires, whatever, and they said there were three traits that were common to them. Number one is this extreme sense of superiority. I can go conquer the world and I am better than everyone else. Second crippling insecurity.

It is, oh my gosh, am I enough? Which means I'm gonna work. Do you even deserve it? Like, yeah. And I'm gonna work harder because I need to like keep up with my extreme sense of superiority. Right? And the third is impulse control. Essentially differ gratification. Those were the three things that were are common to all super high achievers.

And I realized that. Whenever I found my inner voice saying, how can Candice say that I'm right? And when I hear myself say I'm right, I instantly go to, how do I know I'm right? That allows me to like slow down and switch from what I call the EQ to the iq from the emotional to the logical. Mm-hmm. And so I, I react less and I, I start to look for proof and validation a little bit more.

So that's more helpful. I also try, now when I say, how do I know I'm right? I come up with the big five, I'm like, I gotta come up with five reasons to know I, how do I know I'm right? And if you force that, and I can look at that and say, huh, that's interesting. Copy paste sent to Kat. Hey Kat, do you think.

This supports my, now I can ask for help around that. So that's kind of one big way, and I've integrated that into my life. And because of a random chance thing. Here's the second thing. My mom, my mom sent this to me and my mom said to share this with me one day, and she said, assume that everybody that is, uh, that you meet is sent to teach you something.

And that just so when, when we get into a, when I, when I see raunchy comments or hate on Instagram or whatever. Uh, when you approach that with, oh, everybody that I meet is sent to teach you something. Now my responses to those are so if, if, if Kat you said, dude, your post sucks. This is terrible. I don't agree with it.

I say, huh, um, what, how can I do better? So now you just force it and then it just shuts the hater down instantly. And if they're good and they want are, if they're truly sent to teach you something, they will tell you. And now I have a chance to learn, which is really good. So those two kind of, um. Thinking constructs have helped me a lot.

One, the first one, which is, how do I know I'm right? That's been super, super helpful. And even in meetings when someone challenges me, I essentially go to, huh? Candace just challenged me on something that I believe I'm right. How do I know I'm right? And then I just ask the question, Hey, so we have this assumption that, you know, if we did X, we would get Y.

How do we know we're right And now the team validates that and I feel significantly better 'cause I took my inside thought and put it on the outside. That has helped a lot. And the, the other one, it uh, you know, ha ha if everyone has been sent to teach you something that just makes you show up kinder, which I think has been super helpful.

I love that. Kinder not to be confused with Nice. Two very different things, right. Sharon, what is, what's the difference? What do you think? I think kindness. Isn't afraid to deliver some tough news or tough love. It's like firm, but fair. It's honest. I think sometimes being nice, at least from my perspective as a recovering people pleaser is I'll say anything to keep you still liking me and loving me enough to keep me in your life.

'cause I'm so afraid to lose you and it has nothing to do with you and it's all self-centered about me. That's so good. Man, you, you have such, you have such an amazing gift with words. It's like totally not fair. It's so good. She does. It's so good. Like it's so good. Thank you. It's also good. Thank you, Sharan.

This made me think about a reel that I watched when I was scrolling your feed. Um, by the way, I'm always in your feed. I'm always watching your reels. I send them to clients also when I want them to create content that is more, um, tactical, um, or actionable. I'm like, I want you to watch how Sharon is most personable and is still delivering you content that you can actually use.

Anyhow. I saw a reel where you talked about the difference between marketing and sales, and you defined each of them, and I really, I, I really liked it. It's so simple. And can you share it with the clever crew? Yeah, of course. So, um, I, I, I think especially in service-based businesses, uh, people confuse the two.

So first, again, thank you for watching my stuff. Uh, it, there's a lot that goes into putting it out. Uh, but, but, but there's the, in, in, especially in service-based businesses, people confuse marketing and sales. They think that, uh, for some reason they think there's like this big overlap between that. And, and so if we redefine it, you know, what you're doing in each of those.

So I believe that, uh. Marketing in a lot of ways is storytelling. And the job of marketing is just to get somebody to raise their hand. That's it. So marketing stops when Sharon raises his hand saying, yes, I saw something that Kat put out. Yes, I'm interested. That's that's the job of marketing. So as soon as somebody raises their hand, marketing's job is done.

So I always talk to people, Hey, let's only talk about everything that we're doing in marketing to get somebody to raise their hand. And if they don't raise their hand, our marketing did not work. So let's. If we had a metric to evaluate whether our marketing work, it's like, Hey, I spent $10,000 and I got 10 hand raises, therefore it cost me a thousand dollars to get one hand raise.

And there's some metric to kind of go with that. So when people do that, what people do is they, they carry that $10,000 to the final sale and then they lose where it broke, and then they, they don't know whether to improve their marketing or improve their sales. So marketing is storytelling to get somebody to raise their hand.

Now sales is to get somebody from raising their hand to say, yes, they wanna work with you. Uh, there's a great Dan Sullivan definition of selling. He says Selling is getting somebody to, uh, to intellectually engage in a future result that is good for them while making them, uh, while making them emotionally committed to take action on achieving that result.

I'll say it again. Selling is getting somebody intellectually engage in a future result that is good for them, and then getting them to emotionally commit to take action to achieve that result. And that is essentially in ways getting them from a hand raise to a yes. And Mar if marketing is storytelling, selling is a skill.

And, and, and that skill is all psychology without manipulation. Right? And so when people realize the difference between the two, now I know whether I need to work on getting more hand raises or whether I need to get from a yes to a yes and from a hand raise to a yes. And when people stop confusing that they know what to work on in their, in, in their, in their businesses and in their lives.

That's why conversion numbers are like, I'm like, okay, so what's conversion? Are you converting from hand raised to. Yes. Or are you converting from a marketing piece to a Yes. It's too long 'cause there's so many variables in between. And as soon as I, it was able to split up that definition in my head, I was able to realize where things were broken, both from a diagnostic perspective looking at someone's business or even just what am I teaching that day?

So, um, as soon as I separated out, that was a kind of a big shift for me. Yeah, I love that. That's so helpful for someone to really fine tune what it is that they need to work on. I had another question from earlier where you were talking about how you have seven coaches and I can imagine someone is like doing math in their head and being like, how much money is Sharon spending on coaches?

I'll tell you, I'll tell you. Oh, awesome. That wasn't even the question, but go ahead. Yeah. Tell us. It's, it's, it's, it's good to, it's good to share because it's good to share and I will tell you that. Um, there are three things that I don't actively talk about, which is, I don't talk about religion, politics, or money, but when you're talking, but this is not a money conversation of, look at how much I made.

This is a money conversation of look at how much I'm investing in me getting better. So I roughly that, that roughly costs 250 to $300,000 a year. Do you think that people can. Afford to not invest and say, I'm just gonna read all the books, I'm gonna watch all the videos. I'm gonna learn on my own. What do you tell someone who's like, well, everything that I could learn from Sharan he has on his feed.

I think it's a good step one, and I think that'll get you, and I'll use kind of raw business metrics when you get there. Uh, any, anybody that we, that we track? If someone's following Candace, if someone's following cad, if someone's following me, I think you can get to. A million dollars in gross income, you can get to a million dollars in gross income just with key concepts.

After that. It's super hard and I'll tell you why. Um, the, the ideas that I'm sharing or the ideas that you, you share are not sequenced for them. That is the problem. So when I talk to somebody, I am pulling from the same 50 ideas that I did reels or content on. But when I talk to Kat Idea, seven goes first idea three goes, second idea, eight goes third, and then I have to sequence it, right?

And the only way that, uh, and my experience in sequencing is what makes it happen faster. Otherwise, what Kat has to do is she has to sequence, uh, you know, call it 50 factorial times. And it's just gonna take forever to get the right sequence. So essentially the cheat code is, yes, the, the content is the same, but the sequencing is off.

So if we, people just get their seq, most of the times your people sequencing are off. They all, I think most people know the right things to do. They just don't know the right order to, to do them in. I'll give you a great example. Um, my friend, uh, she's brilliant by the way. Her name is Raquel Quinette.

She'd be a great guest for the podcast. I was on her podcast. Oh, she's, she's like my bestie. I've known Raquel 15 plus years. Super smart, super sharp. I love, we should definitely invite her to not nice, clever. So kind, so sharp. And so Raquel said to me, she's like, Hey, Sharan, I wanna start a podcast. And I said, great, you should do that.

But wait. She goes, what do you mean? I said, you are gonna start the podcast and your first 12 episodes, you're gonna get three listens and you're gonna be very, very disappointed. That's why most podcasts don't go past four episodes. And she's like, what do you mean? I said, well, the first thing we should do is build you an email list.

Let's build an email list first, then start working on the podcast. So I just resequenced her thinking. Now, when she launched her podcast, she writes one email and she gets 10,000 downloads on her first show. Yeah. That shift is, I, I, I, I can't tell somebody that, because in the moment Raquel just wanted to launch the podcast and I was like, well, that sequencing probably saved her.

One saved her from quitting podcasting and saved her many, many years and it impacted so many other people because now she was able to drive people to the pod. So it seems like a really, uh, you know, isolated example, but that's what sequencing is all about. Yep. And for us, I've, like, I've seen so many things break.

And I'm like, oh man, I'm an idiot. I should have put this before that and it would've totally worked fine. I had the right pieces in the wrong order. Yeah. And people think, well, how in the world do you have the wrong order? Well, it seemed good at that time. Right. In a lot of ways. So, um, the, I think, uh, the, the power of a great mentor or great coach is they can.

They can see, they can read the tea leaves and resequence them for you and um, but if you're only getting the first million, I think you can get to most of it by brute force. Um, yeah, share force of will. I also think it goes back to what you talked about earlier with your first mentor and how she said when you give her context, she can personalize it.

And that's, that's what you pay for when you have a coach, is that personalization with the context. Yeah. I will tell you a lot of times also as Kat and Candace, I hope I, I, I'm sure you've done, you've shared this with people, like people will come to you with an idea. They're so excited, they're so jazzed.

And you're, you're like, okay, I know this is not good for Sharon. The look on the face is so relatable. It's like that, look, I felt that look, don't wanna squash your child piled like spirit and joy right now. But I also know the agony that awaits you don't do it. Right. And still, Kat, mark Davison, right?

I'll tell him, I'm like, bro, I got this idea. I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. He goes, Uhhuh, Uhhuh, don't do it. Mark doesn't pull any punches. And I go, wait, why? He's like, I know you. This is not gonna work. Don't do it. He's like, do you really want rationale or do you just want the decision? I'm like, just the decision.

I don't need your rationale right now. Like, I'm good. I have way more other things to think about. And he just like, I just shed 10 pounds 'cause I, I carried this energy. Carried, carried this enthusiasm, carried this weight of wanting to do something. Yeah. And, and. A lot of times we are also, you know what people, uh, what's this quote?

It says, uh, 50% of marketing works. We just don't know which 50% I, you know, and, and 50% sorry, of my life from agency days. Jesus, 50% of content, content works. I just don't know what 50%. So a lot of times we're putting out content to see what works, and then I. Then based on what works, we end up doing a little bit more and having some kind of survivorship bias to this stuff.

So people shouldn't take all our stuff at total face value. They should be like, huh, how do I personalize that? How do I personalize that? How do I personalize that? How do you adapt it? Like totally. Mm-hmm. Totally. Right. And so, um, that's why I like to, my, my goal in content is to, um, so. I'll share with Richard Green, $50,000 worth of advice.

So he, yeah. Here, here it's, here's where it goes. Right? So there is a, there's a really good, uh, framework that I hope this is, uh, this is worth, this is worth the price of admission to the show. I think, uh, apart from just hanging out with both of you, right? So the, there, there is a, um. Teaching model called Format.

Format. And it was, uh, created by a, uh, kindergarten teacher to help create lesson plans for children and lesson plans for children in kindergarten. People are coming in, well, you know, little Johnny has a cold. Sarah's looking at something else, like everyone's distracted, right? And so she came up with this framework, which is a four-part framework, which is beautiful, elegant.

I do everything in my life based on this. And it's called the why, what, how now? Why is this? It's called a Y frame. Hey, why am I actually doing this? I tell a lot of people, Hey, when you do the Y frame, you're saying, why is this important? Why is this important right now? Why me? So CAD gets on stage and says, Hey, um, marketing is, is is really important right now because you have to stand in, in a sea of all this, in a crowd of all this information.

It's important right now because there's 14,000 commercial messages hitting at us every single day, and that number is only growing. Why me? Because I helped build the biggest brand in real estate right now. So now I'm like, why is this important? Why is this important right now? Why me? Right? And that sets the y frame context.

Now, whatever Kat says after, I will actually listen because it's like a, I think of the Y frame as, uh, have you ever put on noise cast cancellation headphones? Yes, gloriously. So it goes like this. You put it on and it goes right. That's the Y frame, right? It's like it, everybody's distracted in a room and you bring everybody together with a y to you, and it's, it's short and sweet.

But then on the what frame? The what frame is, I'm giving you a 20,000 foot level on this, and essentially it's a framework. Hey, today I'm gonna talk to you about five things that change your life. Here's a triangle, here's a pyramid. Whatever, some complex shape or theory that that says, Hey, I'm gonna shove a lot of complexity in this, but it's still a 20,000 foot view.

I'm gonna show you that if you have this, you will get the result that you want. And then that's the what frame. The how frame is, Hey, now that I gave you the what, let me give you the four or five steps to actually getting that. That becomes tactical. Mm-hmm. And then the now frame. The now frame is essentially says, Hey, I know I gave you the why and I gave you the what, and I give you the how.

I know that already all feels overwhelming. You don't have to do any of those. Let me just give you the first domino. Just take a picture of this and DM me, and then I will kick off the process for you. Now everyone's like, oh. I got that and I just have to go do this one thing. So if, if everybody kind of uses the why, what, how, now it gets a lot easier in presentations, content creation, how you think about stuff, et cetera.

And I actually, I actually built myself a worksheet that I literally draw. Why, what, how now write my things out and then building slides after that is super easy. And Candace to your, to your point, I'm, I'm going somewhere with this, right? So all my content on, on reels is only the how frame. I only teach the how care about the why after you've captured their attention and provided value.

So I don't teach the what? I don't teach. I don't teach the why. I don't teach the what. I only teach the how. And so when my, when my team is like, Hey, what do you wanna talk about? I'm like, all right, how would I present this idea? Why, what? I don't care about the how. Alright, here's the script that you use, right?

And so, um, it now a lot when you think like that, it allows you to focus on just the how frame. And then you don't worry about giving context with the why or the what. And you go right into the how. And if they get it, you assume that they will get the context overall. So whenever I'm making reels because it's short form, I'm like, Hey, how do I get them to only worry about the how?

Because they have short attention spans and the how is the only thing they're gonna listen to on social media. Of course or care about the why after you've captured their attention and provided value. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But if, if anyone can pick off the why, what, how, now it becomes super easy. To like build anything.

You don't have to sit there with a blank set of slides and say, okay, what do I call this presentation? You don't have to do that can, you can move through it so much faster. I love a framework to help move through things quicker. I was a former educator myself. I taught middle school history for seven years and I love any type of framework that can shorten the length of time between doing something and executing and still making sure that it's really relevant and helpful.

One of my favorite quotes that I've heard you say, there's so many. You're Gemini, you're so good at words. Yourself too, Sharon, is that transformation doesn't happen in isolation. And I resonate with that so deeply. I've reinvented myself and moved more times than I can count, and even it resonates with me.

And so I'd love for for you to share that because I feel like. It's a cop out or an excuse or an easy trap that we fall into when we say, nobody understands me. I'm all by myself. Like, I have all these cards stacked against me. This person's so privileged. They have all this, like all the mental tape. So I just, I'd love for you to just riff on where that came from and.

How, how you've seen it be powerful. Yeah, totally. Um, it's only us Geminis will respond to a quote with a quote, right. Very Yoda of you. And, and, uh, so the, the thing I think about often is when you're, when you're inside the bottle, it's hard to read the label. That's what I think about often. And or, you know, there there's the whole Mona Lisa quote, which is, you know, when you're inside the frame you can't see the picture.

Right. And I think that you lose perspective. Um, and, and a lot of times there is, most of us are just in the fishbowl, in the bottle. We, we lose context of. Perspective how, how the world is perceiving us, what opportunity we're we, we can have. And that's why I think about this whole, uh, you're still in the bottom and there's no transformation that can exist because you don't even, you can't read the label yourself.

That was like my big shift around this. The other thing is, um, a lot of times we're just in our heads and if we can't put language to what we're thinking, feeling and doing it, there's no one can really help us with this. So I'll give you, I'll give you a quick example. So on my team. I tell we have, we have a hundred percent empowerment.

And the a hundred percent empowerment is you can make whatever decision you want as long as you have a rationale for making that decision. So, hey, we're talking to an agent and we're talking to somebody, and we refunded $500. And I said, before you refund the $500, just ask yourself, Hey, Sharon's gonna ask you why you refunded this $500, and you're going to need a rationale.

Just come up with a rationale. Now, that way when I ask you, you can't just say, well, because it felt good, or because I was stressed, or because of whatever. And the great part is. Now when say, Jimmy refunds the $500, and then I'm like, Hey Jimmy, just I'm curious. I saw this $500 refund. Kind of walk me through what happened.

And Jimmy says, well, Sharan, this happened. This happened, this happened. Therefore, I didn't want this to escalate. Therefore, I thought that this $500 would be significantly more than 40,000 that we would spend. Great. So, so one, I know that Jimmy got that. Now the opposite is really important. Two. So let's say Jimmy says, man, he was, he was getting really, uh, angry and I was really stressed out.

I didn't know what else to do, so I just kind of let him have it so it would go away. Now, I don't have to coach Jimmy. I just have to coach the rationale, and I think that's the key part in all of this. So coaching the rationale takes away the triggered ness that I, that's not even a word that I can push to Jimmy.

Yeah. But I can just coach the rationale. And then what happens is Jimmy's now a better. Employee, a better team member, a better citizen of the world because the next time that happens, Jimmy will coach Johnny. On the rationale, and now you, now I have kind of daisy chaining of rationale coaching that's happening while keeping everyone together.

And that's the, that's the, that's the no isolation principle here. That's, that's how you get the transformation. And that was the implementation of the transformation don't happen in isolation. Because I was like, huh, now I know because I don't have, like my friend Craig, Craig Valentine always says, like, by the way, another great resource for your podcast, Craig Valentine always says, you know, you don't have outside eyes.

And I never knew what that meant until he was like, Hey, is it okay if I tell you what I see? And then he just points out everything that he sees that I don't see, and I'm like, wow, I saw this perspective and you saw four others that I can monetize, monetize, monetize, be aware of, and, and so I keep going back to that.

When you're inside the bottle, it's hard to leave the label. So you kind of need outside eyes to get better. I love that. So good. So let me, let, let me ask you guys something. So I love your show. Why, what, what was the motivation? What was the motivation for starting this? I have my answer, but I wanna know Candace's answer.

It's what I needed when I was leaving the classroom and becoming an entrepreneur as a single woman in her thirties, who everyone was like, you're insane. You. How are you gonna live? How are you gonna eat? How are you gonna do this? You know nothing about marketing. You know nothing about this. What? What a, you don't know nothing about coaching.

Like, who do you think you are? I was getting that, and I think not I stubborn. Is what I wish I would've had during that time. Yeah, so good. So good. Um, similar and different in true, not nice, clever form. I, um, I didn't know what entrepreneurship was when I dropped outta nursing school and like moved across country to launch my own business.

I was just running it candidly, running away from a really shitty situation. You know, I was, I was afraid. But you find yourself sometimes when you do that and. There was no rule book and I ended up in a really difficult situation and I felt like I was by myself. I felt like I was crazy. I was the black sheep of the family.

I still kind of am, but they love me regardless. I know that now I've been through lots of therapy too to deal with all of that, and it's just really, it was really nice to find somebody else that like I saw as like a peer and a friend and somebody that like we could lift each other up and lift up other people just by being ourselves and having conversations and.

Like you were saying, Candace shortening the learning curve. I don't want anybody, I mean, a little bit of grit is, is good for character building, but like nobody should have to go through everything that I went through. Like I would love to save you from a little bit of it if I can. So, so good. I, I, I have, uh, for the interest of time, I, I, I have, I have two, two kind of comments on that.

I, I think it'd be super helpful. Comment number one is even though this is kind of virtual, uh, both of you have such equilibrium of energy. It is insane. It is insane. Like I feel so at home and so comfortable and so safe. The listener does not understand this. There is, there's something super magical about.

How both of you think about the world and look at the world and how you and, and how you show up. And so you have insane energy equilibrium, which is very, very like, uh, uh, harmonization. That's probably a better word. Right? Which is super, super cool. So enjoy it. And don't, you know, I, I would, I would utilize it more cats.

You said something which is crazy. I'll give you a, I'll give you a, about shortening the learning curve, which is, which is very true to what we're doing. Um, two minute story here. It, and it's, and I'm gonna probably cry when I share this. So my son, Neil, he's 13 and uh, I take him to soccer practice, you know, every three days a week.

And it's later at night, so 7:39 PM I mean, in the car we just listen to, he, I have, I'll take calls because that's the deal, and he'll say, Hey, and I, if, if I, I have the deal. If I'm taking a call, I put it on speaker so he can listen to the call. That's how that, that's how he listens. And so, uh, I take a lot of investing, investing in real estate calls later at night, and I take kind of business calls in the morning.

So personal investing. Finally, my son tells me last year, he's like, dad, I think I'm ready. And I'm like, ready for what? You're 12. He's like, I'm ready to buy my first rental investment. And he's like, I don't need any of your money. I'm ready for my first rental investment. I go. He goes, I have $50,000 in my insurance policy with all these gifts, and he can borrow from it.

I'm like, okay, whatever. He can do that. So we, you know, we're in the real estate business, so I have a great agent and I put him on with on Connie and she goes back and forth and tries to, finds a duplex for him in Birmingham, Alabama. Neil's gonna buy this duplex, right? And I go, Hey, Neil Cardinal, rural Real Estate.

Somebody else should walk this property just FYI. 'cause you're not there. So he's like, oh, can I call, can I call Uncle Russ to walk this property? I'm like, sure, you can call Uncle Ru. So Uncle Russ walks this property and Uncle Russ says. Hey Neil, I would not buy this property because it's in a area that is not desirable and Neil does not know what the hood is.

So I have to explain to Neil what the hood is, right? And, and then, so he's all bummed and we're at dinner and he's all bummed. And my wife's already rolling her eyes because now my 13-year-old is gonna spend $50,000, right? And, and then under my breath, I say something, I say, well, I'm really glad that deal didn't happen 'cause I would not have done it anyway.

Or some version of that. And he says, wait, what did you say dad? And I said, well. I would not have done the deal because I used to do that in the past, buying single family homes and duplexes. I realized that that was not really passive investing and it was too stressful, and I've just moved to doing other things like commercial and multifamily that I don't have to manage.

And, and Kat, you and Candice referenced this shortening the learning curve. So Neil says this to me. We were at dinner and Neil says this to me, he goes, dad, why should I? Have to relearn the lessons that you've already learned for our family. So good. We're getting into some Yeah. Generational like, and I was like, wait, like what?

And my, my wife, my wife is like, he's how old? Like 13. They're 12. 12 and 13. So he, my wife picks up her plate and she's like, this is on you. And she just like walks away.

So, so the first words that come outta my answer that, like, I'm, I'm not even a parent, I don't even, like I said, I said, you're right. I'm sorry. He was 100% right. And so he said, so he says, so, um, can you get me in on your deal? And, and so I said, Hey, you should talk to, you should talk to my friend Robert, 'cause that, you know, and so he's like, I'll call Uncle Robert.

So he FaceTimes my friend Robert, and my friend Robert's, a savage, like he's, he has children my, my son's age. And he and my Robert says, yeah, yeah, Neil, it's totally cool for you to invest in this deal. FYI, the minimum is a hundred thousand dollars. I'm like, Robert, what in the world, man? The dude's 13. And so my son Neil doesn't take no for an answer.

So Neil says, well, if I have 50,000, I'm pretty sure my, my sister Laura has 50,000. So he goes to Laura, my daughter who's eight, and he goes. Hey, Laura, do you wanna pool this money together so we can invest in this deal? And my daughter has no idea how to, how to trade. She's like, she's in third grade. Yeah.

If you, if you do my chores for the month, I'll trade. And Neil's like, done. So my son combines money with my daughter and they invest in their first deal because of all of this. How incredible. And like he logs into Capital One and he wires like he punches in the AC and he wires a, like, I don't think anyone that a, like I didn't wire money until I was like, until I wired the $10,000 to my first cousin.

Never. When I doubted him on my home, that was the first time the bank had to walk me through how to do it and it's, and so now my son, and then he got his first like check passive income check for like $3,000 and my son is like. Never working at McDonald's. And I'm like, it's insane. So the, the, the, this goes really, really to the, the heart of what you said about shortening the, shortening the curve.

Right. The collapsing the curve. And I think we assume that people should go through. These, the, the foundational lessons. And I don't think they have to, I think that they will, they will hit the challenges that they need to at the level that they need to. You don't have to teach them the ba you, like, you don't have to have, make them walk to school.

You don't have to make them do that stuff. Like, you don't have to make them do that. Give them the, give them the leg to stand, give them the, the, the leverage and the leg to stand up on and they'll make more mistakes that we can go teach 'em more stuff on. Different ones. Different ones that'll help you evolve.

Yeah. Like that's, isn't that the goal of like. Humans. Yes. And evolution. Yes. And so when, when my son told me that I, that was a, this happened in the last, you know, six, seven months. So I, that's really hit me pretty hard. And, um, dad, why would I have to relearn the lessons that you've already learned for our family as a new mom?

That really resonates with me and I'll definitely be thinking about that. Let's, yeah. Thank you so much for that shaman. Thanks for spending time with the Clever crew. I don't think there's anything else to say after that. I'm just gonna rework my vision for motherhood here of like, and how I wanna show up.

So woman, a, CEO, a, podcaster, all the things. Holy shit. Thank you Sharon. No, it was great. I appreciate, appreciate the energy, appreciate the time together. Um, it was so fun. Uh, you, you both have a, you both have a magical gift and I. Uh, maybe you'll have me back sometime. Always. Doors are always open and not nice, clever for you.

Thanks for joining us on. Not Nice clever. Remember to follow, not nice, clever wherever you listen to audio. And if you haven't already, drop that five star review. Share your takeaways, tell us your story. We love to hear it. Signing off, you're not so nice, but oh, so clever besties that mean business. See you soon.