The Science Of Luck With Nicole Perrone

Is luck actually random—or can you create your own?

Today’s guest, Nicole Perone, says luck isn’t some mystical force reserved for the chosen few. It’s a strategy—and she’s living proof. As the SVP at the #1 retail mortgage company and host of The Billion Dollar Banker podcast, Nicole has been studying what she calls the science of luck!

In this episode, we dig into what it really takes to create your own opportunities, make bold moves, and build a reputation that opens doors. Nicole shares how she broke into a male-dominated industry at just 23, scaled to leading a $2B mortgage team by 33, and the mindset shifts that helped her rise fast and lead with impact.

We’re talking:

• The psychology of high performers
• How to build your own momentum when no one’s clapping yet
• Imposter syndrome (and what to do when it creeps in)
• The not-so-glamorous truth behind “overnight” success

If you’ve ever felt stuck, underestimated, or like you’re waiting for permission—this episode is your wake-up call to stop waiting and start owning your next big move.

Show Notes: 

• Check Out The Billion Dollar Banker Podcast 
• Follow Nicole On Instagram
• Nicole's Book Recommendation: Discipline Is Destiny 

📣 Amplify by Not Nice. Clever. is the ace up your sleeve. It's a hands on, workshop style delivery full of replicable frameworks, and actionable strategies that you team can put in place right away.

Find out more HERE.

🏁 Connect With Us On Instagram!

• Not Nice Clever
• Candice Carcioppolo
• Kat Torre

🎙 Book Kat and Candice to speak at your next event, summit or workshop HERE

Transcript

 The formula to luck is preparation plus opportunity, plus bold action. What do you say to someone who says, I hear you, but I just have bad luck. Your results are your intentions, let's just call it what it is. Like if you're not getting in shape, you're not going in the gym enough, or you're just like not working out the right way, or you're ordering pizza at midnight from Uber Eats. Sounds very specific, Kat. ...uh, you know, I pull, I pull from real life inspiration all the time. Winners lose more than losers lose. The quicker you fail. The quicker you succeed. And so if you're not losing, like you're not winning, do you say to the person who is currently feeling like they're losing a lot, if I were to be like really blunt, divorce the story and marry the truth, you're either not.

Have you ever wondered if luck really comes down to hard work or if some people are just luckier. What if luck isn't random at all? What if it's something you can create? Today's guest has spent her career testing that theory. At just 23, Nicole Perone broke into a male dominated industry and by 33 she was leading a 2 billion, that's billion with a B mortgage team in Manhattan.

Now she's the senior VP at the number one realtor. Now she's the senior VP at the number one retail mortgage company in the us. She's the CEO of a booming construction firm and the host of the Billion Dollar Banker podcast. Today we're unpacking the science behind luck, the mindset that separates high performers from the rest, and why the most successful people lose more often than you think.

Welcome to the podcast, Nicole. We're so excited to have you here today. Thank you for having me, and thank you for the intro. We try to keep the. Bio, like to the point before you lose everybody. Punchy. Yeah. Before they're like, okay, she's a badass. Okay. We get it. That's it. That's why I'm gonna make the bio from now on.

Badass. Yeah. Like lots of luck, right? Uh, but no, I, I appreciate it. I love your show. I'm really excited to join and, and be here with you girls today. So thanks for having me. So let's just dive right in. We know that most people either believe in luck or they don't. Um, but you've gone a step further. You've actually tried to understand kind of scientifically what luck is.

So what made you decide to begin to look at this differently? Yeah, I was asked, uh, I was asked to do a keynote speech, uh, at a local Chamber of commerce, uh, for their annual like women's event that they do every year. It was just their fourth annual. And they were like, Hey, why, why don't you do this, this speech?

And I was like, okay, well, I, I would be happy to, but I'm just like, I have no idea what I would wanna talk about. And so I had to really start to think about what do I feel passionate about? What would resonate with, with everybody, right? Because I don't wanna talk about mortgage lending up there, or just sales or something that just couldn't help somebody, like in multiple areas of their life.

And I love this topic. I ended up landing on it because I felt like. This applies to really like all areas of our lives if we think about it. I've always been very, uh, very focused on mindset and manifestation and affirming your beliefs and writing your goals down. And so this whole kind of concept of luck being a science, as I started to research it, I was like, wow, I think.

This is like really, if I thought back to the things in my life that really ended up working now for me, I've, I've been applying this formula and I'm still applying it every day. And so it's, uh, it, I, it just took off from there. We did, uh, the keynote, it was really well received and. Now I say, I've been on like a podcast tour.

I'm like, I'm spreading luck to everybody as much as I can. And they keep sharing the story and, and the conversation always goes a little bit differently depending on the audience. But, uh, I hope your audience can get a lot out of it today and hopefully they'll leave a little bit luckier. I'm sure they will.

This is a topic that Kat and I are also interested in, but I don't think we normally. Use the word luck. I think when we talk about it, we talk about like manifesting or great energy, gratitude or, you know, vision casting, writing down our goals. But I love that you name it as luck because that's something that everybody knows.

So what, what would you say that people get wrong about it or maybe don't understand it, and how is how you approach it different? The, the formula to luck is it's preparation. Plus opportunity, plus bold action. And the more that you do those three things over and over again, the more luck you're going to create and harness in your life.

So if we think about. Um, the steps you were just talking about, being into manifestation and affirming and taking in information that's gonna help you. Right? That's all, that's all in the first bucket. That's in prep, right? That's your preparation. Like, you gotta get into that space first. That's why I don't like when people like, kind of, they poo poo the whole motivational speaking and, and uh, like they call it the woo woo stuff.

The reality is, is like, that's part of getting prepared is getting your mind in the right spot. You can know everything about your industry inside and out. But if your mind's not in the right spot, you're never gonna take that next step, which is to put yourself in places where opportunity is going to come about.

Not only to put yourself in them, but to just to be aware. If you have a negative mindset and you walk in somewhere, like, uh, you're, you're never gonna see an opportunity if it's in front of you. Right? You, it doesn't come with like flashing signals. It's not right in your face. Like you have to have. The right mindset to feel like there's opportunity all around me.

Good things are coming to me. As time's gone on. I've used the analogy with like, even with dating, like if you go out and you're single and you're saying, I'm never gonna meet anyone. No one good ever comes here. When they do, they're taken. Like that's all you're gonna get. Right? And so to some extent that's like, that's manifesting, right?

But really what it is, is it's preparing yourself to have the mindset to see opportunity when it does come. Because if you do have that perspective where you're like, Hey. I know someone's gonna be here. I'm gonna meet someone, they're gonna come. What's made for me is here for me. And you have that perspective, you'll see it.

So it really starts with what you said. And then the last part is really that bold action part, which is a really important part. I'd say that's probably the part a lot of people will leave on the table. They'll, they'll be prepared. They'll, they'll see opportunities, but then they'll, then they won't take action on them, right?

So they'll, they'll meet that great person when they go out, or they'll see that job opportunity in front of them. Or they'll have that great idea for a business and someone that they could do it with, but they never take that next step. And that next step is all about taking action. So that's, I think that's one of the things that people leave on the table, especially when it comes to, like, when you're thinking about, uh, sales, which is an industry I'm in.

Follow up is something a lot of people don't do. Uh, I had, uh, Eleanora Gro on my podcast talking about she, her and her, she was, she's a Netflix store selling the city. I don't know if you've watched the show, but she was talking about how like one of her friends was hating on her because they both met like this billionaire guy.

And like ultimately she ended up following up with this guy and he became a client of hers. And she, and so the other girl was like, well, I don't chase. And she's like, it's not chasing, it's, it's the fact that I was more prepared and I was more ready to go after that opportunity. So it's a big part of it.

Take action on the things that you see in front of you. Try not to delay and, and apply this formula. I think people could be be way more lucky in their lives. We love a three-part formula, really simple, really straightforward. There's no tricks. There's no magic. It's just, it is what it is. And I'm almost curious, Nicole, 'cause Candace and I have seen this in our coaching.

Where people know exactly what they need to do, but there's something that holds them back. And with, as important as mindset is for you, what do you think some of the reasons are people don't take action if they know what to do? What have you found that holds them back or used to hold you back before you became the billion dollar banker by 33?

Yeah, I'd say I think that that one of the things that holds 'em back, if, I mean, if they, if it's not mindset, if they're not in the space where, you know, there's not in the, in the place where they could take action in their lives every day. Then it's, it's, it's, it's either the fear of being rejected, it's the fear of, of not being enough, like not deserving of that opportunity.

Like what, what is that billionaire gonna really wanna talk to me? Like I don't, I never even talked to somebody that was a billionaire, whatever that case may be. Uh, there's obviously like imposter syndrome. There's all these like psychological things. We, we, we do bold action as the last part of the formula.

'cause a lot of people also, they just take action and like, that's it. It's like you go to the gym like for a week and you're like, what's happening? I'm not in shape yet. Right? Like. You know, if you think back to a lot of the opportunities you had or the coaching that you do, it requires, you know, a lot of follow up.

But you know, without taking things personal, I think sometimes you'll make that one, that one action step and maybe it won't work out. Like you, you'll hear people say like, you're using the dating analogy, right? Like. Well, I, you know, I, I already, I already tried doing that. You know, all, all men are horrible.

Like, we'll just start generalizing, right? Like all those people never answer. Every realtor has a mortgage person. Whatever your excuse is in your head, now you start to generalize everything. We just have to realize like you, you have to use failure as a kind of like a data point. Like, okay, I know statistically that I have to do five to 12 follow-ups with someone in order to be in the zone at all of making a sale.

So if I've only done it once or twice, it's just not enough. So it has to be bold action. It has to be. The call, the email, the follow up, the video, the dm, the like, the creative way to loop around like, Hey, I've been trying to, you know, I'm trying to get this guy on my, on my podcast. And I now, I met someone that knew him and I'm like, you gotta text him right now and tell him, tell him like, this is like my 10th time.

I'm like, send a picture of us. Tell him he needs to come on my show. And since then, he still hasn't said anything. He's like, oh yeah, I wanna go. I'll, I'll be in touch. And I, I've still followed up with him three times after like, every time I go on Instagram, he's just gonna get a message from me and I'm not insulted that he is not responding or that we, we haven't made it happen.

I'm just, this is part of the game. So you gotta kind of like, just understand what it takes and take action. That's the biggest, that's the biggest advice I could give. So what does someone do? To prepare themselves to be able to take that bold action, number one, right? You have to get in this space, whatever your business is, whatever you're trying to accomplish, you have to just lock in on doing the groundwork, right?

Doing the things that are necessary to learn the skills, to have the tools. To get your mind wired the right way. That's step one. Step two is you need to be always aware and expecting opportunity around you to happen. We use this example in the keynote about how two girls, they walk into a coffee shop and one girl's sitting there with her head down just drinking her coffee, scrolling on her phone, and the other girl's like very open.

She's, she's like kind of looking around. She's drinking her coffee. And she strikes a conversation with the person next to her. And this after talking, this gentleman happened to own a, a company and he was like, you know, I think you'd be a great fit. Like, why don't you apply for the role? And it's just a perfect example of like being aware and like seeing what's happening, expecting things or like just not just being here.

And so it starts with that second step. You gotta just be open. You gotta know that. You gotta be looking for the opportunity. 'cause again, like it's not flashing signals in your face, like opportunity, it's, it's, sometimes it comes in a way that's a little bit more discreet and so you have to be expecting it.

And then you have to go outta your way to put yourself in environments where you think you're gonna find opportunity. So in business, if that's networking events, if that's certain organizations that you join, if it's local communities or organizations. Um, whatever it is to get in those environments and be in them consistently, because there's gonna be more opportunity there naturally.

And then the third step is like, don't do all that stuff and then not take action. 'cause it's just a waste, it's just a waste of time. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Now you've like, it's literally you're losing money if you don't do that next step effectively. And so you, so you gotta do the follow up part. You gotta do the bold action part and not be scared of failure.

We talk about so many stories about like, and you probably have heard 'em, but like JK Rowing, you know, got declined by 12 publishers before the 13th accepted her. Or maybe it was 13th declinations of the 14th. That story. Those stories go on and on. You look at, uh, Dyson James Dyson, the bagless vacuum cleaner, who he like wanted to create this bagless vacuum cleaner.

It took him, he failed like 5,000 times before he got it right. Thomas Edison with the light bulb. Like when you're determined and you really wanna accomplish something, you, you don't, you just, you just need to find the one way to do it right. It's okay if you find 10,000 ways not to do it. But you only have to be right one time.

And so you have to realize that anyone that's ever accomplished anything in their life has taken consistent repetitive action and been okay with failing and accepted it and not take, not taking it personal. So that last part, if you do take that bold action, don't take rejection or failure as something personal and you just use it as a data point and keep moving.

You are just gonna rinse and repeat that cycle, and you will, you will generate more luck in your life. More opportunity will come your way and you'll, you'll start to see it. It almost feel weird. You're like, how did that happen? People are reaching out to me now. Yeah. Like, am I manifest? Like, is this, is this what manifesting is?

I mean, we've all experienced it. Like all of a sudden something happens and you're like, wow, this is, this is incredible. Yeah. I was just thinking about this, or I just wanted this to happen in my life. It also seems like when you are taking action, you're creating momentum. And the momentum is the thing that continues to fuel even more opportunities in front of you.

And that's the really exciting thing about even having conversations like this, right? Like we haven't really met prior to this conversation, but. Ultimately, we know that having this, this conversation with you right now is gonna lead to even more potential collaborations, opportunities. Like you have a whole network.

We have a whole network, right? We're gonna meet people because we're having this conversation that is meaningful and aligned. And that's part of it, right? We're we're, we're at a place where we're creating more opportunity, right? When we have, we could go do this over coffee or dinner or drinks, or we could do this and record it, and hopefully a few hundred or a few thousand people will hear it.

That's just taking the same thing that we would've been doing anyway and turning it into like more opportunity and then we have to take action after that, right? So. Yes. This reminds me, I have to share this story with you, Nicole. 'cause Candace and I and Corinne, our producer who's on here with us, uh, we're at a conference last weekend in Vegas and I was supposed to fly out 10:00 AM Saturday morning to go back home.

And I was gonna Ms. Day two of the conference and the night before I found out who the mystery speaker was gonna be, and it was somebody I wanted to see so badly and I was like, ah. I wish I could still be here to see her, and then my flight gets delayed the next morning. So I, I end up showing at the conference, I'm like, I'm pretty sure I spoke this into existence.

'cause I felt in my gut, I was like, I've been following her for four years now. I get to see her speak in person. I need to be there, delayed seven hours, made lemonade out of lemons. I I get on the plane finally at, at five 30 in the evening. I sit down, I realize the same person I was sitting next to Thursday evening is sitting next to me again because he was flying in and out from Philly to, for a work event, Nike, actually a Nike event.

And I just looked up and I was like, he's like, you're not sitting here. I was like, I am. I was like, what are the odds? And so then we sat down and while we were waiting to take off, we got to talking. Turns out he's a creative director for the Philadelphia 76 ERs and was there doing field development and like competitive research.

And now I gave him my business card. I don't know what's gonna come of it. But I just, instead of being on my phone, on the plane, I looked up and realized, I was like, I recognize that hat and let's have a conversation. It was so wild. That reminds me of the analogy of like the two girls, like you could have been in on that plane with your head down, like pissed off, but you're like, this hat, like everything kind of just ends up happening for a reason.

If you, and if you think this just goes back to like mindset. If you think, okay, this is somehow happening for me, right? Like I wasn't supposed to be on that plane, or I wasn't supposed to get there at that time. I'm supposed to be here for some reason. If you see it that way now, like you're, like you were, you're aware of what was going on around you and you, and you made the best of it.

I love that story and, and so many people like that are listening today can think about upset, pissed, yeah. Places in their life where they, they're kind of getting like a little bit, they have a little bit of doubt, you know, starting to build up and they're. They have this trepidation about moving forward on things and hopefully like they'll see little examples like this, just the simplest one, like you go away from Thomas Edison to James Dyson to JK rallying to like just being on a plane.

And like looking around and who knows what that'll come in. Now it's the bold action time though. So what are you gonna do now? Yeah, Kat, what are you gonna do? Well follow up. I'm gonna follow up. We connected on Instagram. Let's call him right now. Let's just call him right now. Right? All right, Tommy, we're calling you.

Get ready. I love it. So a long along the same line of thought. We know that. So when it comes to social media, it's often the highlight reel. But can you take us back to a moment in your career when, uh, maybe everyone around thought it was like, oh, this is her lucky break. But you know, that it wasn't actually just a random thing, you know, that you created that luck.

Like can you tell us your perspective versus maybe the outsider's perspective? Yeah, I, I, um, so I've been in, in the mortgage industry for almost 20 years. I started with a, a small firm with like one o one other guy, a couple people in the, in the office, learned the ropes and then at 25 I started with Wells Fargo.

And, uh, I had big goals when I got there. I was young, I was kind of naive, which actually served me really well, uh, to be being naive in sales. Like just, uh, like I don't even know what's happening. Just, yeah, I'm not jaded. I don't have any like bad, you know, preconceived notions. I'm just like ready to like get the opportunity.

But, um, as, as time, at 1.1 of my mentors had said like, you have to act like the, the next role. You wanna be like, start at wearing that hat today. Don't wait till you're there to wear the hat. That was really good advice. And I, and I started to take it. I wanted my peers to see me not just as a peer, um, 'cause leadership was always something that was, I was interested in.

And I used to look and say like, you know, one day I wanna work in the city, because I knew that was what all the great business was happening in the city. And um, I always said it like, kind of jokingly, but not really. I was like, that's like, that's the goal. If I were to do anything here, I wanna run a team in Manhattan.

And so, you know, after many years of being in New Jersey predominantly with writing loans all over the country, an opportunity came up to apply for a management position. I felt prepared for the opportunity. I took bold action. I was looking for it right, and I got rejected. First time I applied, I didn't get the job because there was someone else that was more prepared than me.

And so I could have like, taken that personal at the time and just kind of like, put my head down and be like, I guess this isn't for me. Like, maybe I'll go do something else. Like, I'm never gonna be a meet manager. But I, I went, I asked for feedback. I was like, what could I have done differently? What can, what do you want to see of me moving forward for me to get that next opportunity?

And when the next opportunity came, which was relatively quick after, which is really, I don't know what kind of luck that was. I was just like, it was just real luck, I guess. I didn't create it, but it happened. The opportunity was there and I, and I went after it and I got the position. And so I was managing, you know, a 300 to $500 million team, uh, at, at, I think I was 29 years old when I got the position.

I, a lot of the team members were older than me. Uh, not a really, like I said in the beginning, in the intro, not a very female dominated industry or commensurately wasn't. Especially in leadership. Um, and so I ran a team. We were very successful, we recruited, we grew, and then the opportunity came. I got a phone call one day, Hey, like one of our New York offices is open, uh, and I think you'd be a great fit.

And so I was like, absolutely no brainer. And the opportunity came and I, and I, I talked to my manager. I was very cordial about it. And I, and I went after it, right. And it was a hard decision 'cause it's a long commute, it's like hours. And I knew there was gonna be sacrifice and. I, I totally got that, but I was ready for it and I was prepared.

I had been managing, I got myself ready to manage. But I guess the long story short, I think if you just looked at me getting that position at 33, uh, I think, I think people could make, have, have made some assumptions. I'd probably be making assumptions if I, if I say what they, I think they are. But I think that people looked at it like, oh, well that's really lucky.

We were, we were at a time where. Uh, diversity inclusion was huge, right? Within companies. There had never been another woman that led a, a team in Manhattan ever for this company, this big, like progressive, diverse company. Like you think you're the first woman. And so for women before me like that are, were older than me, that were on my team, that was like actually way more important to them than I actually thought it would be.

They were like, we've never had a female leader. Like, I wanna work for a woman. Like they were they, 'cause they come up when that wasn't even like possible for them, right? So. I think getting that position and having that opportunity at such a young age as a woman, uh, being a diverse team member was, uh, I was ready for it.

Like I would've never gotten that call if I hadn't done everything else right. And so yes, diversity and inclusion like came about and I think that would became a focus. And it was an important focus. It should be. But I think, um, because I, if I wasn't prepared and I hadn't sought the opportunity, I still, even if you could say like, yes, that highlighted the need for women and this and that, I still wouldn't have have that opportunity.

So I think everybody like needs to understand and they hear it a lot like, but, but nobody got to where they are, like easily. And a lot of people prior aren't even where you think they are. Whether you could, whether you, they perceive like, or they're trying to show you they are, you know, with their cars and their this and their, that, whatever they're trying to show off to you.

I think ultimately, like we, we just need to be real. Like we all fail, we all have people that don't like it when to see us succeed. Um, I think podcasts like these are like exciting ways to share these stories and hopefully they resonate. Hopefully there's like a young girl and a company right now that wants to be a leader and you know, she's inspired by this message.

But yeah, I think, I think, I try not to take that perspective too, because sometimes you could look at someone and you're like, Hmm, how did they, like how did this, how did they make all this happen? But, uh, mine is good for them. That's what I say, no matter, no matter what. And not in a mean way. Right? Like in, like, no, literally good for them.

Like they, yeah, they got this opportunity, like, and they ran with it. Like, I love that for them and. Sometimes people are like, oh, like they get paid so much money and they barely do anything. Like great. I love that. For them, they, they worked so hard to get to a place where they could make so much money and barely do anything.

'cause you know, it's not barely doing anything. Right. It's all of their experience that got them, them to this place that gave them this opportunity. So can we go back and talk to that girl you were just talking to right now? The younger female who is listening to this who. Is unsure of what's in store for her, knows that she wants to be in leadership.

What is one thing you would encourage her to unlearn that will propel her forward? Huh? What's to unlearn? I think that one of the biggest and most important things in leadership for me is like, is being a servant leader. Being someone that, and when I say that, what I mean is like. Kind of understanding what everybody's style is and how you can best really best support them and their business.

And I found that being younger, being diverse in a more of a male dominated industry. When I took the position of like, Hey, I'm not your leader, we're like. I'm gonna tell you what to do and you're gonna do it. I'm your leader where like, how can I support you? What can I do to help you? What are you looking kind of more like a coach or a mentor, someone kind of like gently guiding like you're struggling with technology, let's sit down and talk about it.

Like I can help you with that. You're struggling with putting your loans together. So I think, I think doing that, recognizing like, hey, the more I can be of, of help to others, the better. And I can take that perspective. You gotta let go of ego when you're in leadership. It's gotta like go out the door. Um, and yeah.

Yeah. It's, which is, which can be hard at times, but I think that's part of the servant thing. I would say it's, it, it goes in that space and I, and, and let go of the fact that everybody has like something in the back of their mind, some kind of reason why they can't do something. They're too young, they're too old.

Their accent, you know, their, their race, their ethnicity, their religion. Like, everybody's like, oh, well then I don't know if they're gonna work with me because I'm too, I'm too old now. I've heard people say that I'm too old now. I've heard people say, I'm too young. Where people say like, oh, I feel like I'm kind of stuck in my segment of like my culture and like I don't know how to really break out of it if other people wanna work with me.

And so everyone has that like story they're telling yourself. They just have to like divorce the story, marry the truth. Ask people for input. Ask them. Ask them what you could do to get ready for that next position. Wear the hat today if that's what you wanna do, and just continue believing in yourself and continue listening to podcasts like this that can help.

Reinforce the things that you need to hear to, to get to where you wanna go. Okay. Real quick, I'm just gonna leave, put this in a time capsule and send it to my 12-year-old self and we'll just see where I am 20 years later. Yeah. Conversations that you wish you heard. I wonder. So I have a background in teaching.

I was an elementary school middle school teacher for a long time and I feel like I tuned out other conversations 'cause I was so narrowly focused on. Being what I was at the time, and I wish I had more of these types of conversations when I was in my early twenties or teens even. Um, but I was so. Like tunnel vision and like I want to, you know, be a teacher because my life was changed by so many teachers and I just didn't take in any other information.

And I feel like now it's a different world where there's so much opportunity for young girls to take on so many different roles that I hope that conversations like this are getting to them and they're not like tunnel vision like I was for so long. Mm-hmm. I think that's a good point. I do see people that.

They try to like shut out the noise. They're just like, I just wanna shut out all the noise. I just wanna like focus on what I, what is gonna serve me best. Which is like, I don't wanna hear about like the news and everything happening and like what else is out there, other opportunities. Like I just wanna be in the, I wanna focus.

'cause you know, you could be easily distracted if you don't, but you do have to pick your head up every now and then. And like, and look around and figure out what else is out there. And you, and, and I don't think everything, like, I think some time ago it was like, oh, do one thing. Like, or you're the jack of trades, you know, all trades master of none.

Right. But now I think it's just so different. I think we're in a world where we have like, we could get so much more done quicker, right? We have all this technology, we have AI assistance and AI dialers, and. I mean, the amount of the advantage that we have, being the first generation to tap into a lot of this technology and leverage it and have our devices in our hands to get messages out to thousands of people, just, you know, jump into the world of being yourself, being authentic, getting your message out as quick as you can, and pursuing your passions and realize, like, you don't just have to be one thing.

Like you can be the teacher and like the, the, like the person that has a jewelry store and makes jewelry or sells something online or whatever it is. I would just, I would encourage people to go after it. At best. It becomes something that like works and you make some money and you do what you love. And at worst you learn.

And learning is like the, like the quicker you can learn and the quicker, I guess at worst, you, you fail. I, I'll call it learning, but if you fail, you learn. You're like, okay, well that didn't work, but maybe I'll have something else I wanna do. And you do it again. The quicker you fail, the quicker you succeed.

And I always tell like, my team winners lose more than losers lose. And so if you're not losing, like you're not winning, bow down to that quote forever. I'm going to probably get that framed somewhere in my home office. What do you say to someone who says, I hear you, but I just have bad luck. Well, if I answer that like a sales person, right?

I'd say Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. What, tell me more about how you have bad luck. I don't know. Like there's this other chick on my team, she always gets the good leads. I never get good leads. Um, I just feel like she doesn't even know as much as me. She's doing more business than me like. I, I feel like every time someone talks to me like I can't, they're, they're just bad leads.

Basically. If somebody said that to me, I would try to really discover, like, peel back the onion and figure out what's going on. Why are they, why do they think they have bad luck? Because a lot of times, like, I think that turns, that's just like imposter syndrome. Like you think somebody else has something else that you don't have, and.

You're never gonna be able to get it. And you know, a lot of people experience that with like social media. Oh my God, I can never be in shape like that. Like that person has all this money to do these things and I don't have that. Or I'll never live somewhere like that. Like you just scroll, scroll and continue to like reinforce like comparison almost.

Right? Don't compare yourself to other people. Focus on what you're doing. And what you can control. And of course, you know, things happen, bad things happen in life. I'm not saying they don't exist, but what I'm saying is you can definitely create environments where you can get luckier, right? Like that person, we probably would've finished that conversation and she would've been like, well, I, I only really made two calls to each of them.

And then I like, okay, make eight and you'll, you'll be luck. Lucky to increasing your opportunity for luck to, there's something to fix there. I think you need to have, if you wanna be successful, you need to have. Hyper sensitive awareness. You don't have to beat yourself up. Like you could be good, good to yourself, but you do have to be aware of like what you need to do more of, less of.

And you have to try to be as agile as possible in changing that quick, like I'm the kind of person that would be next to that other person as an example of like a contrarian thought. I would be next to that other person thinking, like trying to copy exactly what they were doing 'cause they're doing something better than me.

And like I'm. I don't need to be the best. I just like, actually, matter of fact, if you can help me figure it out, I can just copycat what you've just done. That's even better for me. I like Perfect. I would be like knocking on that person's door. Like, what are you doing? Like how quick are you calling them?

How do you follow up? Do you have any email templates you could share with me? Yeah. Yeah. Like be, be okay with being the person in the room that asks questions and tries to get information from the people that are doing the things that you wanna do. Yeah, being curious is definitely something that has helped me attend in my business, and I'll tell you that as an introvert, being curious doesn't come naturally to me because I don't like it if people ask me too many questions personally, like if you're asking me too many personal questions, I get uncomfortable.

So then what I used to do is not ask people questions because I don't want them to be uncomfortable, but instead I reframed to lead with curiosity. And then I get to have so many more great conversations, better relationships, all of that. I think it's such a good point because a lot of people like sell the way they buy and I've, I've, I've felt that way before where like, why is this person asking me so many questions?

Like, was an interrogation. I think it really depends how you ask the questions, right? I think that's a big part. Like sometimes you could feel like someone's, when they're asking you questions, you're like, do you even care? Or just asking me 'cause you wanna like get information. Yeah, like this is, doesn't feel like it, something doesn't feel natural when someone's like really inquisitive.

Oh, like, yeah, I've been to Philly before. Like, have you tried this place? Like build a little rapport in between each question and don't just like hit people with a copy and adapt. Right? Yeah. Right. There's an art to asking questions the right way. Um, but I think that was really, really good to identify because conversely, a lot of people are like, I don't like when people follow up with me too much.

I don't wanna get more like, because they're like, that's like they're bothering me, they're being pushy. And now you're like, well, I don't wanna do that because like, I'm not gonna do that 'cause I don't like it. I don't like it when people do it to me, so I'm not gonna do it. You kind of have to, like, whenever you're in sales, like you, you gotta take yourself out of the buyer seat and you gotta focus on the statistics and the reality of what it takes to make a sale and what it takes to make a, create a relationship.

And it does require follow up. And you don't have to be pushy. Sales and pushy is not the same thing. Bad selling. Being a bad salesperson is pushy. Mm-hmm. If you're, if you're good sales person or woman or man, you, you will be, you will never be pushy because you're gonna be consultative, you're gonna be curious, you're not gonna be pushing someone to make a decision.

For you, you're really trying to figure out if there is something that you can do to help. And if you feel, if you're passionate about what you do, you wanna follow up. If you believe in yourself, you have the right minds. Yeah. You'll like, this person needs to talk to me because I know I could help them, like.

I got, I'm gonna call 'em again. I'm gonna text them, like be playful with it. I love the follow up where you ask somebody like, Hey, uh, have you given up? Have you given up on, on like, moving forward with this project? And they say like, no one wants to like give up. So they're like, no, no. Like finally you hear back from No, no, no.

I don't quit. I'm not a quitter. There's a, there's a follow up tip. But, but yeah. That's interesting that you shared that. 'cause I've, I've, I've felt that before too. Yeah. It's not speed. Dating. Okay. Romance. Romance. A little bit of romance here. So if winners lose more than losers lose, what do you say to the person who is currently feeling like they're losing a lot and maybe feeling like they're.

I've fallen off. Yeah. I'd say like if I were to be like really blunt before you ask that que that question, I'm where I'm supposed to be really blunt. Like, you're either not doing enough which of what you have to do or you're not doing it well. Like that's, that's it. That's the reality. Again, remove the ego and look at it clinically, right?

Like, yeah, like that's just the truth. Like, let's just call it what it is. Like if you're not getting in shape, you're not going in the gym enough, or you're just like not working out the right way, or you're ordering pizza at midnight from Uber Eats, which sounds very specific cat. Uh, you know, I pull, I pull from real life inspiration all the time.

Yeah. Like I ask myself this question all the time. Same. Yeah. Well, it's true. It's like, you know, we've gotta look at yourself back to Hyperawareness. Okay? If I'm, if I'm working out, working out, working out, I'm not losing weight. What's going on? Like, I'm either not doing enough or I'm not doing it right.

Like, I need to increase my cardio, I need to decrease my calories. Like you, that's the kind of perspective, like, you have to be tough on yourself. Like they, I went to one seminar one time that was like, and this is a tough one to like for people to understand sometimes, but like, your results are your intentions.

It's like that simple. The, your results are your intentions. The results you have in your life today are exactly what you want. It's exactly what you've intended. Now I realize there are things that are like completely uncontrollable in our lives, like health and things like that. So those things would be out of the question.

But the things that you can control in your life, if you have a result in it that, that you're, you're saying you don't want, well, you're lying to yourself. You do. That is your intention. That is what you want. So I have, uh, one more question till we get to before we get to not nice advice. You know, Nicole, one thing Candace and I talk a lot about is that we, we were on traditional paths.

Candace was a middle school, um, history teacher. I was a pre-nursing student once upon a time, but then took a hard thank you, hard left turn. I dropped outta nursing school, moved cross country, launched my first company. It was very hard for my family to understand what I was doing. They still ask me questions of, okay, you have a conversation.

You make money from it? I'm like, yes. And so, you know, with the podcast and traveling and conferences. So for you, are you that first one in your family? Like how does your family, you know, how has that relationship evolved, like as you've grown and learned? I would just love a, an insight into that. Yeah.

Well, I think a lot of, I think a lot of times your family wants to like pro protect you, right? They're like, they're nervous. You know, when I got outta college, it was 2007. The job market was horrible. Like gas was through the roof, like just money was like water just disappeared and I could not find a job.

I was like, this is crazy. I just went to school. We just spent all this money on school and here I am like talking about jobs that we're paying, like just not enough for me to survive. And so I was like, this isn't what I want. I wanna determine what I'm worth. I want to go out, like I think I'm worth way more than whatever they're gonna offer me.

And that, that was like my own self-worth thing. And so. So I remember telling my mom, I'm like, well, I saw this ad in the paper, like this makes me sound old when I tell this story. Like, I swear it was in the paper. Either that or now I'm just saying it 'cause it sounds good in the newspaper. I opened the newspaper, there was an ad and it was like a hundred thousand dollars.

Make a hundred thousand dollars a year, come to this sales training. So I went to it. I had no idea what it was. I'm like, I'm just gonna go. I wanna make a hundred thousand dollars. I went, I did the training program. They hosted it at like a car dealership. I was like, okay, well I guess this is just, I go so naive.

I didn't even know why I was there. And at the end they were like, Hey, well, you know, now that you went through this, like if you want a job here selling cars, you could sell cars. I'm like, I don't wanna sell cars. But then I was like, you know what, like maybe I'll try it out for a little bit until I could see what else is out there.

And so I remember calling my mom. I was like, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna sell cars. You know, I got offered a job to sell cars. She's like, you're gonna sell cars like you just got out of college. Like, what are you gonna do? Like, I learned so much in the car business. It was very short period of time, maybe like a year and a half, two years.

And, uh, I learned everything not to do in sales. 'cause a lot of, uh, a lot of car salesmen just like, really were not very good at selling and they just really wanted to like, make a sale That back to the, that's why people think people are pushy in sales 'cause of bad salespeople. So I learned what not to do and I, I excelled quickly in that role.

And, but my mom, like, she looked back and she was like, just, it's funny how I, I discouraged you at the time. So I, I got out of that position because the market crashed. And I was like, Hey mom, you know, I have this opportunity to get into the mor, the mortgage industry. She's like the mortgage industry, like everything was fresh, you know, she's like, what is, what is all this?

Cars and mortgages? She's like, I thought you were gonna get like a nice secure job with like a 401k and a salary. And, and so she was like, I don't know, Nicole. Like, this is a lot. And so now, now we joke around. It's funny, I have very supportive parents. They've always encouraged me. But like they've also protected me.

And in those moments, I think back now how like, good thing I still believed in myself and I wasn't like, yeah mom, maybe you're right, I'm gonna go like work at the post office so I could get union benefits or something. So, uh, I would just say that like you're gonna people around you, sometimes it's better to not share your ideas with people because you don't wanna get discouraged.

'cause it is very easy for them to, like, it's something to just live in the back of your head. Like when I started New Jersey Construction, my stepdad said. Partnerships never work. And I was like, that was a pretty shitty thing to say. And I'm like, you know, I shouldn't even really talk to him about my business.

Like, well, I don't want his advice. I didn't ask for it. I don't like when people give their opinion and you didn't ask for it, but he gave it. And so in the back of my head, like it still lives there a little bit at times. I'm like, maybe he is right. Maybe partnerships are tough, you know? But I'm like, at the end of the day, I think, like my mom will say to me now, she's like, good thing you never listen to me.

Because I excelled in all, all the positions I had. I grew professionally, I grew personally. I knew that I had more in, in me than just like waiting to climb that corporate ladder. And, and yeah, and some of these concepts are foreign, like having a podcast and making money and doing speaking engagements and making money like.

You know, we're just in a different world. We're in a different world than our parents were. I mean, people don't take the same job and stay there for 20 years anymore. They know if I move every three years, they make more money. Like that's just the reality. I'm gonna move more. Um, they know, they, that's legit.

My strategy. Every two years I just moved to a new, well, San Francisco, to Portland, to Miami, to dc to Philly. So. It's, you know, the vibe. There you go. That's awesome. You've almost every city, you know what it's like, talk about environment. It's like there's, there's, there's nothing better. Just being in this environment where everyone's charged up, everyone's going after it.

They say there's an actual, like, physical feeling you get when you're in like a city. New York specifically. I don't Oh, the energy. Yeah. I wake up without an alarm clock when I'm in the city. Candace is naturally gifted, but I can't sleep in the city. Like I, yeah. At home. I go to bed by 10. In the city, I'm up and don't even know what time it is.

So Nicole, let's talk about your podcast. So what made you wanna start the billion dollar banker, and then what can our audience expect to see if they listen to your podcast? I think so. Very simply put, for me, it's like no matter what you're doing in business, like you just gotta be ready to make a change to change.

Next change is already here. Ai, get your AI avatar, get your AI assistant right? Get them answering your email like it's here, people are using it, it's already here. Now we can wait a year and like watch everybody else use it and then decide to do it. Or we could just be like, changes here. I have to pause.

I have to learn. I have to work on my business and I have to, I have to implement this. Right? And so it's the same thing when you think about like people today, if you, if you're coaching people, they're like. I know I need to do video, but I haven't done it yet because you know. I don't know, like all this stuff in their way.

Right. Well now, like we're three, we're three renditions away from that now. Like we got podcasts, 1 billion people a day, listen to podcasts. Um, somebody posted recently, like, you know, you get like down, you're like, man, I only got like 300 views on that post. But like somebody did, I forget the guy's name.

He was like, this is what like. A room of 300 people looks like, and it's like him with 300 people. And then the next slide you're like, oh man, I only got 500 views. Like this is him with 500 people behind him. Like you think about the fact that you have the attention of that many people. So it's just like something's just gotta look at it.

Whether you like it or not, you gotta figure out how it's gonna fit for you. And so for me, I've always been passionate about leadership, coaching, development, mindset. I've always been curious, just like you about wanting to learn from other people. I think OPE other people's experience is the best way to learn anything.

So if you can, so you could be like the front row student with somebody, like learning from them, uh, why wouldn't you wanna be, I, you know, I've had people on the show that have started, incredible companies, achieved amazing success. You know, look at like Eleanor Subrow, like worth $14 million. Like we're the same age, like we've been doing it the same amount of time.

I, I'm like so inspired to be like sitting with someone, having them talk about that and then like kind of unwinding and peeling back the onion and showing people like, this isn't just someone that got lucky and ended up on tv. This is someone that really like sacrificed all of her twenties, like didn't go out, didn't date, didn't see people.

And that story, by the way, I'm using her as an example because she's probably the most well known guest I've had. But ultimately, that's the same story for everybody. It's the same exact thing. It's sacrifice. It's late nights, it's early mornings. It's. It's, uh, disappointment. It's going, you know, when you open new New Jersey construction, it's not like, oh, the money just starts coming in.

Right? You have to build a business. You have, right? So that takes time. You have to have patience. So I just think that, uh, you know, you gotta, you gotta be in that space for yourself where you're just. Willing to accept what's, what's available for you. Go after what you're looking to do, make the, make the sacrifices that are necessary and, and just get, get involved and get out there.

You, you gotta, like, sometimes you have to commit first and figure things out later. 'cause you'll stay in this space where you're just like, someone on my show the other day said, you're just dancing. Like, you're just kinda like dancing. Like, should I, shouldn't I, should I Right. Just like do it. Just go. So, and you just wanna like shake them by the shoulders.

It's like, the story's the same way for all of us. Like, just do it already. It's true. It's very hard when you can't help someone like shift that and then you have to be quiet and then like ask questions so they arrive at their own conclusion. 'cause you know, as a coach that that is more impactful. You're like, I know the answer already.

Yes, but no, it's hard. It's hard. But yeah, I, I would say like anyone that wants to hear and learn from other professionals that are doing amazing things, that's what our podcast is all about. It'll keep evolving, but our mission's really just to help other people and. And spread awareness of like how to get after it in your life, whatever, in whatever facet it may be.

The next episode coming out's all about ai. So if anyone's interested in, uh, listening next Thursday, um, it's gonna be a good one. We'll definitely drop the link to the podcast in the show notes so you can check it out there. Make sure you subscribe. Um. What you were telling me right now made me think about Cody Sanchez.

'cause Kat and I got to see her on stage the other day, and she said to have the level of success that you know she has or that other people have that you admire. You have to work harder than you ever thought you could for longer than you ever thought you could. If you do do those two things. You'll get there.

Shit, that sounds like depressing. No, I'm just, I'm just kidding. Oh my gosh. I got this longer. But, but you're right. It's like, it is, it is. People don't like to think it's about discipline or sacrifice, but it is, you know? No, I mean, and Cody Sanchez, she's got a great podcast too. You know, you, you, I mean, it's incredible.

I, I was on a podcast the other day where, uh, we had been doing podcasting for the same amount of time. And, uh, and he had recorded like 230 episodes in two years. Like, that's a lot, right? I think I've done like 50 or something. I'm like, that's insane. Like, do you not do anything else besides podcasts? But he was like.

Yeah, but he's achieved so much. So I, my point is, is like the quicker you can increase the propensity at which you're like putting that output, the better. Right? And so try and just try your best not to delay. Like, I think it's more, more important than ever to, like, we, we move and we take action. Kenneth, do you wanna read the not nice advice?

Okay. Why do I constantly feel behind, even when I'm hitting my goals? I know I shouldn't compare, but scrolling makes it hard not to. It feels like everyone around me is further along, even people who started at the same time as me. How do I quiet the voice that says you should be further by now.

Sincerely productive on paper, but feeling behind. Wow. So that's a real person that actually submitted that real person. And it's exactly what we were just kind of talking about. So that's crazy. That's cool. Well, I think first 'cause you read it like really sweet. So I feel like she's, maybe she's a little sad.

You know? I feel like, I feel like first thing I would say is like be kind to your. There's no one that you're out there today admire, admiring, or aspiring to be like that hasn't felt victim to vices, that hasn't hit the snooze button, that hasn't been lazy, that hasn't struggled with something, or that hasn't felt exactly the way that you're feeling.

So start there where like, you're not alone. Um, I think forever we will all vastly with that feeling from time to time like. Am I doing enough? Like someone's, someone's, I just kind of gave a couple examples, right? Of the guy with the podcast he did, like, and then Eleanor, like they, they're, I mean, they're moving so much faster, but like, it's funny, you'll, you'll play like board games sometimes.

Like you could be ahead in the board game, right? And like, oh, like, oh, I'm gonna win. I got this, I got this. Like, bingo, whatever it is, right? But you ho honestly, what matters is like the long game, right? Because you could catch up like we were playing a game last night with the kids and like it was the same thing, like everyone would think they would win and it was like, nah.

The person that was all the way in the back ended up winning the game. So it's not about like how quick you get somewhere, it's just about actually enjoying the process as you're going through it, as best as you can. And instead of comparing yourselves to, to somebody else, feeling as if like maybe there's something that they have that you don't, that's not true, that's just a story that's not true at all.

But try to glean inspiration from them. Get insight. So whoever those people are, ask for their advice. Ask for their, and I guarantee you what you'll find is like, oh, I knew that. Or like, oh, I'm doing that already. Right? So like, dig in, pull the, pull the cover back a little bit, look behind the curtain and you'll find like, you know, you could do anything anybody else is doing today if you really want to.

And then the question is like, do you want to, you might not want to, like, it might look great to have a six pack, but like that looking great and like that would be cool if I had it is very different than like, I have to have one, right? Because it requires a lot of sacrifice to get one. Unless you're draped and you could just have it like painted on.

Yeah, I like potato chips too much and soda. I could never, I'm just not gonna have a That's fine, that's fine. It looks nice. But yeah, I'm not gonna get mad like that. I don't have 'em when someone else does. So I just say like, you're not alone. Like, keep the faith, keep, you know, sending in questions like this is like the perfect place that you should be spending your time and continue listening and, and yeah, I hope that helped.

But, but it's, it's hard not to fall into that cycle sometimes, but you gotta. Gotta remember, like I, I just listened to a book. Um, I don't know if you guys have ever listened to it. Discipline Is Destiny With By Ryan Holiday. Yes. It was a really good, so good. Yeah, the stoicism. A lot of storytelling, a lot of examples.

I try to remember some of them when I come on podcasts. It's hard to remember them all. But like every chapter's another story about like a lesson. And, uh, it's, it's where I got the, what we were just talking about, one of the ideas that I just talked about I got from that book. It's a great book. Maybe check it out.

That's, that's another input I have for you. Thank you. This has been such an insightful conversation. Really, really appreciate it. Thanks. I appreciate it.